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Just joined the forum. Have a 66 fastback with a 289 that I am swapping in a T5. Will be going with the cable clutch with a fox bell housing. Wanted to confirm my research concerning the starter needed. My understanding is that I have a couple choices related to the starter. Could use the stock auto trans starter from 66 or could use a auto or manual trans starter from a Fox.
Please let me know if this is correct or if there are additional questions that need to be answered first.
Thanks.
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I can't answer your question, Tom. But I do want to be the first to welcome you to the best place on the web. I suspect you'll have your answer soon.
Again, welcome and I hope to see you at the Bash one day.
BB
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Welcome to the forum!
My T-5 swap was a little different because I used the 4-speed bellhousing and an adapter plate, but I seem to recall that you could use the automatic transmission starter with a T-5 bellhousing.
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I recommend getting the OEM starter for a 93 Mustang. starting in that year gear reduction starters came from the factory and they are less expensive than aftermarket units. I love the gear reduction starters on both of my cars. Welcome to the forum!!
Also here is an article I wrote for Ford Muscle on the T5 swap. It was in my Galaxie but lots of good info there.
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WELCOME to FYIFORD! Glad you found us.
The starter depends on what flywheel you are using. If you have an early 289 flywheel, you will need an early starter for a manual transmission. If using a later design flywheel that would work on a 28 ounce engine, it may or may not require the automatic type starter. All of the 50 ounce type flywheels for the Fox 5.0 used an automatic type starter. It has a gear that protrudes from the starter motor farther than the manual transmission starters from the earlier cars.
If your car was a three or four speed 289 and you are using the original flywheel, you will use the original manual trans starter.
So...what flywheel are you using?
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The car was an automatic car and I did the Mustang Steve conversion to add the clutch pedal. I believe I got the 28oz original flywheel with the fox bell. Will double check tonight.
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This is the flywheel I ordered from summit. Looks like 157 tooth, 28oz imbalance, 10 inch.
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I believe you will need to use the automatic starter you already have if you had a 157 tooth flexplate. The Fox cars used a 164 tooth flywheel, so a Fox starter wouldn't work. That's a shame too, because the gear reduction starter used from '92 onwards is only $100 at Rock Auto for a Motorcraft reman. They a significantly lighter yet more powerful; my favorite combination.
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Fox body run a 157 not a 164
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157 tooth flywheel, but a 164 tooth flexplate, my mistake. I believe you would have a 157 tooth flexplate in your '66, so a '92-up Mustang starter or the starter you have now would work. Either way, just verify that your starter and flywheel match.
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Try the manual....................if it grind and raises-cain....use the A/T one.
You WILL know if its the worng starter before you damage anything!
6sally6
Welcome sir!!
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Tom I sent you a PM.
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BillyC wrote:
Tom I sent you a PM.
After I sent the PM I checked my records. I used a starter from an '85 Mustang 5.0
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In which case use the '92 up 5.0 starter as its interchangeable with the earlier 5.0 starter and a lightweight gear reduction design.
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Ah, the perils of asking questions on internet forums. You get answers that are all real good info, but lacking the proper information to make an informed decision. You get generalizations that are not necessarily applicable to your car.
OK, the REAL ANSWER...
That Summit flywheel is a stock replacement for an early 289 with 10" clutch. It will need the early style starter designed for a manual transmission. Your automatic starter will not work, but can be used for a core for the new one. The Fox gear reduction starter will not work. The 10" clutch will work fine if not high HP.
My suggestion, if this is a performance application.:
Return the flywheel and replace it with the billet steel Ford Racing 157 tooth flywheel with 28 ounce balance designed for the 10.5" clutch. THEN, you can use your existing starter or the Fox gear reduction starter. You will also have more clutches to choose from with the larger 10.5" diaphragm Fox Mustang 5.0 clutches that are so plentiful. The 10.5" stock clutches will perform better than a stock 10" clutch. Centerforce 10.5" dual friction is my choice for a performance car.
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Thanks for all the replies.
My car is a C code so we went with a stock build with a couple upgrades (4bbl carb, hedman shorty headers and upgraded the 8 inch to 3.73 tracloc). The goal was to have a car that is fun to drive, but basically stock with AC, etc.
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The T5 will help tame the 3.73 gears, especially on the highway.
Make sure you're timing is set right on that engine. They are low compression, and will tolerate timing that is radically wrong without pining (yes, I know this from firsthand experience). Get an advance kit and use the lightest springs in the kit. You will want about 38 degrees total timing. Set timing, adjust your carb accordingly and that little 289 will surprise you. Its not going to be a high HP stroker engine, but with a manual trans, deep rear gear, and a fairly light car it'll move pretty good.
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Quick update
I'm doing a t5 swap with my 289 and have a t5 bell housing, but using the stock flywheel from the 289
I was advised to us a stock 3spd started, but am getting a screeching noise when trying to start the car
Any thoughts?
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The summit flywheel might require the automatic starter. This is why I like using Ford or Ford Performance parts. When the aftermarket starts making Chinese parts, no telling what specs they are built to. Your summit flywheel said it was stock replacement for 28 ounce 10” clutch, 157 tooth. Apparently it has the shallow ring gear that uses automatic or later starter.
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toms66fback wrote:
Quick update
I'm doing a t5 swap with my 289 and have a t5 bell housing, but using the stock flywheel from the 289
I was advised to us a stock 3spd started, but am getting a screeching noise when trying to start the car
Any thoughts?
Yep, you need a starter shim or two. I had the same issue. I couldn't find one locally, after checking about three stores. No one had one in stock. I had a spare starter lying around so I just made one out of some 18 gauge sheet steel. It helped, but didn't completely solve the problem, so I made and added a second one and problem 100% solved.
I too used a cheapie flywheel. I can't say for sure if that's the root cause of the issue. Having to shim Chevy starters is somewhat commonplace (enough so that EVERY store I went to had those shims on the rack). The Ford shims exist, but they don't seem to be used often enough to merit keeping them in stock. I believe the thickness of the ones you can buy is 3/32", or 0.09375". Two pieces of 18 gauge steel measured out to about 0.09800". I could have had one the next day, but I wanted to test drive the car that night and just made mine up instead.
Last edited by TKOPerformance (7/10/2018 6:42 PM)
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This might help.
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Are you using a repro block plate? The last two I used I had issues with. The first one I couldn’t even get the starter in. The last time was recently when I put my GT40P in my 66. The starter made horrible noises. Both block plates I had to enlarge the opening while on the car otherwise I would have had to pull the trans and flywheel. I’ll bet that is the problem, not the starter.
A word of warning. Check the block plate with a bellhousing on the engine before putting it in the car.
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Shimming a Chevy starter is different than shimming a Ford starter. The Ford starter is located positively by the flange on the starter fitting tightly into the hole in the block plate. As long as the shims allow the starter flange to positively fit inside the blockplate hole, you are OK. If the shims move the starter too far out, the starter will move when engaged. There is a tremendous amount of force trying to push the starter gear away (radially) from the ring gear.
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Hi Tom and welcome !
I have done the swap in my 66 fastback month ago , before was 4 manual .
I need the spacer in my bell and the starter was good to be used .
Month later using the car i realize that i should listen two cents from here and now i can only blame myself-
I havent re-surfaced the flywheel and now when hot is jarring and shudder ( correct ?)
Then i havent changed the shifter with a good one hoping that T5 was not so bad .
well is not so bad but is really not at top ! I like the old style long travel lever from first to second , a little less should be better . Is soft in handling . Is not so bad anyway but for my taste i prefer firmer.
The clutch is a brute force 10" that like honest joe do his job for low power pony.
I have the 3.80 and is really too short for my driving .
First is useless and second is quite the same , the fifth gear on regular highway speed revs the engine too much to say is a relaxing cruising. Next winter i will go for a 3.50 or 3.40 or even little.
Hope it helps
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MS wrote:
Shimming a Chevy starter is different than shimming a Ford starter. The Ford starter is located positively by the flange on the starter fitting tightly into the hole in the block plate. As long as the shims allow the starter flange to positively fit inside the blockplate hole, you are OK. If the shims move the starter too far out, the starter will move when engaged. There is a tremendous amount of force trying to push the starter gear away (radially) from the ring gear.
With a Chevy you are changing the distance between the ring gear and the starter gear. With a Ford you are changing the distance between the starter housing and the backside of the flywheel/flexplate. Moving it back 3/32" doesn't remove it entirely from the register in the block plate. I suspect that's why the shims they sell spec out at that thickness and no more.
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