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4/12/2018 5:13 PM  #1


1992 302 very difficult to get running

Stock 302 stealth Weiland  manifold 450 cfm Holly . Both new .I had 2 450 cfm Holly's on a Ford racing manifold which  was way two much fuel . It did run ok but since i had a 66 mustang with a electronic steel gear dist which ate the cam shaft up  i bought a rebuilt original dist.  I did check the cam gear and its all good. Before installing anything on the street rod i tried starting it and it back fired through the rear carburetor . I went ahead and put the dist and manifold in. i can barely get it to start when it does it is missing like crazy . popping up thru the carb. whistling out the carb . cranking  the engine with a vacuum gage on i have none . I closed off all vac lines.  I have suspicion  that as a rebuilt engine which i bought that the timing gears may have slipped .Perhaps the key wasn't installed on the crank gear ? The engine does not have 150 miles on it .I thought that it was 180 out but that didn't change anything. Thought it was an HO cam changed the dist wiring no difference . All opinions welcome . 

 

4/12/2018 9:55 PM  #2


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

I would verify the firing order again. Make sure you know what you have and check that timing chain again. A tooth out on the distributor gear will also give you fits. I know, basic, but it’s the littlest things sometimes.


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
 

4/12/2018 11:06 PM  #3


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

It’s been a few years since I had to go through this. So, to the more knowledgeable, put me in my place where I’m wrong!!
 
Agree with checking the timing and the problems you get from being a tooth off.  Verify #1 at top dead center on compression stroke and see where the rotor is pointed. And how 0 on the harmonic balancer lines up with the pointer.
 

mrputz1 wrote:

Stock 302 stealth Weiland  manifold 450 cfm Holly . Both new .I had 2 450 cfm Holly's on a Ford racing manifold which  was way two much fuel .

 
Are the spark plugs gas fouled? Are the plug wires good?
 
 

mrputz1 wrote:

It did run ok but since i had a 66 mustang with a electronic steel gear dist which ate the cam shaft up  i bought a rebuilt original dist. 

 
A points distributor? Are the points gapped to whatever Ford Spec’ed? Is the condenser good?
 

mrputz1 wrote:

I did check the cam gear and its all good. Before installing anything on the street rod i tried starting it and it back fired through the rear carburetor. I went ahead and put the dist and manifold in. i can barely get it to start when it does it is missing like crazy . popping up thru the carb. whistling out the carb .

 
Seems like the back firing through carb could be timing retarded too far? Lost a lobe on the cam? Stuck exhaust valve?
 

mrputz1 wrote:

cranking  the engine with a vacuum gage on i have none .I closed off all vac lines. 

 
I don’t know that you will see a vacuum gauge register by cranking it over.
 

mrputz1 wrote:

I have suspicion  that as a rebuilt engine which i bought that the timing gears may have slipped.

 
Will help to verify with #1 at TDC on compression stroke. And how 0 on the harmonic balancer lines up with the pointer.
 

mrputz1 wrote:

Perhaps the key wasn't installed on the crank gear ?

 
It’s there or the distributor wouldn’t turn
 

mrputz1 wrote:

The engine does not have 150 miles on it .

 
Compression test on all cylinders?
 

mrputz1 wrote:

I thought that it was 180 out but that didn't change anything. Thought it was an HO cam changed the dist wiring no difference . All opinions welcome . 

 
Good Luck to ya
 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

4/13/2018 4:51 AM  #4


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

Where are you reading timing?  The timing pointer on a '92 is on the RH side of the engine, whereas on an early engine its on the LH side.  The balancers have timing marks in different positions.  I would verify that TDC #1 cylinder reads TDC on the balancer with a piston stop.  I would also make sure you are at TDC compression stroke, not TDC exhaust stroke.  I believe this is likely your problem, because your symptoms indicate the timing being pretty far off. 

I would double check the firing order as well.  A '92 engine with a '92 cam would use the H.O./351 firing order.  There's nothing to stop you from putting an early firing order cam in a later engine though.  If need be, you can pop the valve covers and see the order in which the valves are opening to verify firing order.  If the first suggestion doesn't fix the issue try this, but if you say it makes no difference I don't think this is it.  I've run a 351 with an early 289/32 firing order.  Ran like $#%&, and changing it to the right firing order fixed it immediately.  You say you tried both and it made no difference, so I think your issue lies elsewhere, but worth checking if its not a TDC reading location issue. 

 

4/13/2018 9:34 AM  #5


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

Set engine rotation at #1 TDC on compression stroke.  Verify compression stroke by witnessing pressure at #1 plug hole as engine is rotated.  Reverse rotate to about 12 degrees BTDC

Install distributor with rotor pointing to #1 plug wire.

1992 engine has 1-3-7--26-5-4-8 firing order.  Distributor rotates CCW as viewed from top.  As TKO noted, your engine could also have a different cam with the old 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 firing order, so you need to verify that.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/13/2018 3:47 PM  #6


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

Those are good suggestions above.  I would make sure the firing order is correct and that the distributor is not installed 180 degrees out of rotation.  You know the 5.0 HO uses the 351W firing order instead of the old 289/302 firing order, right?

 

4/14/2018 2:57 PM  #7


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

When you need help go to those who have been there and done it. Sometimes you may be to close to the forest to see the trees ! Well its running better than ever . even  though i have been working on cars since i was 15 and now going on 83 starting with a 50 flaat head and 2 Model a's you can still learn. Fortunately i was able to see number 1 rocker arms . and number 5 on the opposite side  with out pulling the covers. I didn't know that the timing marks showed up on the opposite side of the early small blocks . It was an HO engine . What i want you guys to know is how appreciative i was for all of the advice .

     Thread Starter
 

4/14/2018 4:41 PM  #8


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

Any time.  Glad you got it sorted out.  Small block Fords, as you discovered, aren't all the same.  A lot of people think that, but they don't realize that over their 50 year production span certain things were changed to accommodate the changing vehicles they went in and emissions requirements.  When Ford went to the serpentine belt drive and hung the PS pump on the LH side of the engine the old place for reading the timing was completely blocked.  They moved it to the opposite side where you could get a shot at it between the smog pump and the alternator.  This obviously required moving the timing marks on the balancer as well.  The thing that will give you fits is that the balancers all pretty much interchange, so you can put one with the wrong timing marks on pretty easy, especially if you run a late engine in an early car and reuse all the early car front drive stuff.  Further complicating it is that they switched from 28.2 oz. external balance to 50 oz. external balance.  Fortunately you didn't have a balance issue, but I've seen that too.  It would have been REALLY nice if Ford had made it so you couldn't interchange the early and late parts (different crank snout diameter or something), but they didn't, leaving succeeding generations to continually rediscover this stuff by trial and error.

 

4/14/2018 7:14 PM  #9


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

how can you post a picture 

     Thread Starter
 

4/15/2018 9:14 AM  #10


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

mrputz1 wrote:

how can you post a picture 

Hook up with  imgur.com, load pics and copy the proper links for forum posting, easy as pie!
 Photpbucket was real good till they started to charge for 3rd party hosting, bastages.

Last edited by Rudi (4/15/2018 9:21 AM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

4/16/2018 10:22 AM  #11


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

Check out this how-to article by Gaba... No third party account needed.
http://fyi.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=6945

 

4/17/2018 8:18 PM  #12


Re: 1992 302 very difficult to get running

The timing marks were moved to the passenger side of the engine in 1970.  Glad that item to check was mentioned in the suggestions!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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