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Well, this has become maddening. Something is off with my driver’s side front wheel as it seems
to be sitting almost a 1/4”’ further out towards the fender lip than the passenger side wheel and for the life of me I can’t figure out what is off.
A little background on the set up:
64.5 vert
Street or Track Coil Overs, A-arms and adjustable strut rods
CSRP 65-66 spindles with big bearing
TCP Manual Rack
MS Cobra Brake brackets and Cobra brakes
Front wheels are 17x7 with 4.25” bs
Front tires are 235/45/17s
Before car went on the rotisserie it was put on a frame machine and checked and the car is straight and square.
Driver’s side fender is original Ford sheet metal.
Passenger’s side fender is a Dynacorn Repop.
Current alignment setting: both wheels are at about +3.25 caster, -0.25 camber and -1/8 toe
Wheel base is equal on both sides at 108” +/- 1/8”
After I dropped the engine in the car, I took a look at the alignment and the passenger side was almost perfect. The driver’s side, however, had WAY too much caster as the front edge of the tire was hitting the bottom front corner of the fender when turning the wheel to the right. I extended the strut rod and pushed the wheel back towards the rear of the car to get the wheel more centered in the wheel well and that solved that problem. Once I moved the wheel back, I aligned everything to the specs above.
However, even though the driver’s side tire now clears the front corner of the fender, it now looks like that the tire will hit the fender at the top of the wheel arch if the suspension compresses significantly. The passenger side tire, however, looks fine everywhere and looks like it will slide up into the fender well without hitting the fender with about a 1/4”’ spare between the fender lip and the tire if the suspension compresses.
I took some quick measurements from the outside of the frame rails to the back of the rotors on each side and that sort of confirmed what I was seeing. I had about 10” from the frame rail to the rotor on the passenger side, but just under 10 1/4” on the driver’s side.
Where the car is straight, all parts are new and nothing is bent, etc., what could be causing this?
Any ideas for other measurements I can check to see where the problem might be?
I could probably go to 4.75” bs on both wheels and solve the problem, but I don’t want to spend another $500 on new wheels and, since the passenger side fits with no issues, I shouldn’t need to get different wheels.
Thoughts?
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For those days 1/4" is well within manufacturing tolerances. Mine is off a similar amount, but I cannot remember how much. It has been a number of years. I still rub the fender sometimes in right turns. You should have more BS with tires that large. Most use 4.75.
I had to downsize my front tires a size to get everything to work properly. Your amount of body drop has a lot to do with clearances and tire rubbing. People with larger tires generally do not lower the front of their car. Also, I have seen many different ride heights over the years. It has to do with engine size, spring stiffness installed, and that infamous manufacturing tolerances of yesteryear.
My setup:
Wheels - 16x7. BS - 4.25
Front Tires - 215-55x16 Rear Tires - 225-55x16
1" drop GT springs
Shelby/Arning drop
Distance between bottom of fender and center of spindle - 12"
Last edited by lowercasesteve (2/09/2019 11:35 PM)
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Thanks. If it is manufacturing tolerances causing it, I guess maybe that's good and bad. Good because it means nothing is "wrong" but bad because there is not much I can do about it.
I did lower the car a bit when I did the alignment, I'll check the distance from the spindle to the fender and post it in a bit.
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Distance from center of spindle to bottom of fender is apx. 12 15/16” on both sides.
And I just remeaured in various places on the frame to the back of the wheels and the rotors and that 1/4” that I measured last night is more like 1/8”. So, I am now at a total loss.
Could there be that much variation between the factory fender on the driver’s side and the repop on the passenger passenger side? If anything I would have thought the repop would have fitment issues, but the factory fender is where I’m having the issues.
Last edited by Chaplin (2/10/2019 9:18 AM)
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Chaplin wrote:
Distance from center of spindle to bottom of fender is apx. 12 15/16” on both sides.
And I just remeaured in various places on the frame to the back of the wheels and the rotors and that 1/4” that I measured last night is more like 1/8”. So, I am now at a total loss.
Could there be that much variation between the factory fender on the driver’s side and the repop on the passenger passenger side? If anything I would have thought the repop would have fitment issues, but the factory fender is where I’m having the issues.
I would think the fenders are a bit different, but they are just sheet metal and somewhat adjustable. The formed radius of the wheel arch as well as front lower corner could be significantly different. I am running 225x45/17 tires on 17x7 fronts with effectively 4.5" backspacing. Nothing comes close to rubbing, but my fender lips are rolled vertical.
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Not sure what to do with this right now. The passenger side fits without issue, even without any fender rolling at all. The driver’s side looks like it will contact the fender arch itself, never mind the unrolled lip.
Here’s the passenger side:
Here’s the driver’s side:
I guess the options are to try and massage the fender (although not sure if there’s enough massaging that can be done), swap out the fender or swap out the wheels for 4.75 bs. Although a 4.75 bs on the passenger side will probably looked sucked into the fender well too far since it looks perfect now.
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How much thread engagement do you have with the lugs? Why not just run a 1/4" wheel spacer on the offending side?
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Ohhhh. Have you tried measuring actual wheel backspace on those 2 front wheels, or tried mounting them on opposite sides?
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TimC wrote:
Ohhhh. Have you tried measuring actual wheel backspace on those 2 front wheels, or tried mounting them on opposite sides?
Funny you mention that. I did have that thought last night too. I am almost certain that I measured the bs of the wheels when I received them to make sure they were correct before mounting the tires and I am pretty sure they were spot on. I did pull the driver’s side wheel yesterday to check it and the bs was exactly 4.25”, which is what I ordered. I am going to pull the passenger wheel tonight, check it and then mount it on the D/S to see if fitment is any different. I am not expecting that will result in a change on the fitment on the D/S, but I would be very happy if that was the issue!
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My 65 had a similar issue but I was able to loosen all the fender bolts on that side and bow fender enough to get 3/8" more and still have everything line up ok. No one has ever mentioned to me that it looks different because it doesn't. I then rolled the flanges and went up a size on tires.
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Man that sure looks like more than the 1/4" you claim. How's the alignment? A variance in the side to side camber could be affecting the relationship of tires to fenders.
BB
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TimothyIrolo wrote:
I have a KD-250GKA that does not have front fenders and I would like them. Where can I find them including and mounts? Also need a rear fender...I sorta broke one
Does KD-250GKA refer to a Ford Mustang? Is that an export designation? Not trying to be rude, I just never heard of that. Sorta sounds motorcycleish to me.
BB
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DC wrote:
My 65 had a similar issue but I was able to loosen all the fender bolts on that side and bow fender enough to get 3/8" more and still have everything line up ok. No one has ever mentioned to me that it looks different because it doesn't. I then rolled the flanges and went up a size on tires.
Thanks. I will talk to the shop that did the paint and body work and see if they think that’s a possibility.
BB-
Alignment specs are above. Camber is -0.25 on both sides. The angle of the picture may make the difference look larger than it is.
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Chaplin wrote:
TimC wrote:
Ohhhh. Have you tried measuring actual wheel backspace on those 2 front wheels, or tried mounting them on opposite sides?
Funny you mention that. I did have that thought last night too. I am almost certain that I measured the bs of the wheels when I received them to make sure they were correct before mounting the tires and I am pretty sure they were spot on. I did pull the driver’s side wheel yesterday to check it and the bs was exactly 4.25”, which is what I ordered. I am going to pull the passenger wheel tonight, check it and then mount it on the D/S to see if fitment is any different. I am not expecting that will result in a change on the fitment on the D/S, but I would be very happy if that was the issue!
And while I had each wheel off, and LCA supported, I would put a straightedge with an angle finder vertically on the wheel mount surface of the rotor and try to get a measurement to the frame rail. Compare angles of rotor face from vertical, and distance to frame rail for both sides and ask Shaun at SOT if measurements are significantly different.
And then I would loosen the fender bolts and yank on the fender, as DC suggests, but your paint is a WHOLE LOT nicer than mine LOL.
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Bullet Bob wrote:
TimothyIrolo wrote:
I have a KD-250GKA that does not have front fenders and I would like them. Where can I find them including and mounts? Also need a rear fender...I sorta broke one
Does KD-250GKA refer to a Ford Mustang? Is that an export designation? Not trying to be rude, I just never heard of that. Sorta sounds motorcycleish to me.
BB
It's an ATV, not sure why he's posting that here
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TimC wrote:
Chaplin wrote:
TimC wrote:
Ohhhh. Have you tried measuring actual wheel backspace on those 2 front wheels, or tried mounting them on opposite sides?
Funny you mention that. I did have that thought last night too. I am almost certain that I measured the bs of the wheels when I received them to make sure they were correct before mounting the tires and I am pretty sure they were spot on. I did pull the driver’s side wheel yesterday to check it and the bs was exactly 4.25”, which is what I ordered. I am going to pull the passenger wheel tonight, check it and then mount it on the D/S to see if fitment is any different. I am not expecting that will result in a change on the fitment on the D/S, but I would be very happy if that was the issue!And while I had each wheel off, and LCA supported, I would put a straightedge with an angle finder vertically on the wheel mount surface of the rotor and try to get a measurement to the frame rail. Compare angles of rotor face from vertical, and distance to frame rail for both sides and ask Shaun at SOT if measurements are significantly different.
And then I would loosen the fender bolts and yank on the fender, as DC suggests, but your paint is a WHOLE LOT nicer than mine LOL.
Good idea on the straight edge and angle finder. I will try that tonight too and see what I get for measurements. I am going to hold off tugging on the fender for the time being. If it comes to that, I think I’ll let the body shop handle that. I’d be really mad at myself if I screwed up the paint or worse, the fender itself. If they screw it up, they can fix it!
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TimC wrote:
Chaplin wrote:
TimC wrote:
Ohhhh. Have you tried measuring actual wheel backspace on those 2 front wheels, or tried mounting them on opposite sides?
Funny you mention that. I did have that thought last night too. I am almost certain that I measured the bs of the wheels when I received them to make sure they were correct before mounting the tires and I am pretty sure they were spot on. I did pull the driver’s side wheel yesterday to check it and the bs was exactly 4.25”, which is what I ordered. I am going to pull the passenger wheel tonight, check it and then mount it on the D/S to see if fitment is any different. I am not expecting that will result in a change on the fitment on the D/S, but I would be very happy if that was the issue!And while I had each wheel off, and LCA supported, I would put a straightedge with an angle finder vertically on the wheel mount surface of the rotor and try to get a measurement to the frame rail. Compare angles of rotor face from vertical, and distance to frame rail for both sides and ask Shaun at SOT if measurements are significantly different.
And then I would loosen the fender bolts and yank on the fender, as DC suggests, but your paint is a WHOLE LOT nicer than mine LOL.
Well, I think I have concluded that the difference is definitely in the fender.
I pulled both wheels tonight and measured the bs and they are identical. Then, with the wheels off I jacked up the lower control arms to get the suspension to ride height, put a digital angle finder on the rotors and both sides were identical at -0.3. At least that is consistent with the -0.25 camber reading I got with the Fastrax alignment gauge. Finally, I measured from the frame rails to the outside edge of rotors on each side and both sides measured 12”’.
So, I guess I have to see if the fender can be tweaked enough to make it work, buy new wheels
or try a different fender.
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