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I got the new water pump installed on the 331 in my 69 coupe. It also has the CVF Wraptor serpentine belt system. This is the fourth water pump in 4,500 miles
The CVF folks talked me into eliminating the mechanical fan, thinking it was too much vibration. So, I reluctantly installed a Contour type dual electric fan. Those who know me know how reluctant that decision was to go electric.
Upon startup, I was greeted with the loudest screeching sound I have ever heard coming from a car. Yes, everything was thoroughly checked prior to assembly and all pulleys align properly.
I sprayed some WD-40 on the belt and the noise went away. For about thirty seconds…
I really doubt I will EVER be able to drive this car again.
How in the hell can a belt possibly be making that kind of noise???
Pump #1 failed at 1,000 miles
Impeller digging into the pump housing and front bearing pulling out of the housing
Pump #2 failed after 1,000 miles
Leaking profusely
Pump #3 failed at 2,500 miles
Leaking profusely and besring working its way out of the housing.
Pump #4 just installed. Can’t drive due to belt noise.
I guess I will have to buy a third belt to quiet it down. And, the belt is a serious job to install.
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Have you tried a slightly longer belt?
The requirement of removing the alternator pulley is why I mention it.
When I swapped the 3G alternator into the Foxbody serpentine drive, pulley was slightly larger than the 2G alternator pulley. The existing belt was difficult to install. If I remember correctly, the tensioner was at the tight end of the range for the belt…I think. Any who, I believe the belt under load applied excessive force on my p/s pump and it failed.
The Wrapalator appears to place constant downward pressure on the water pump. Under load applies more force than the small water pump bearing and housing can handle. Especially with the short span and the 2 fixed pulleys.
The ribbed side of serpentine belts do not slip like the backside in the factory drive.
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What system do you have specifically?
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Not leaving a good feeling about my CVF setup.
If anyone recalls when I called CVF and asked about using a mechanical fan they told me it would void my warranty.
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Nos681 wrote:
Have you tried a slightly longer belt?
The requirement of removing the alternator pulley is why I mention it.
When I swapped the 3G alternator into the Foxbody serpentine drive, pulley was slightly larger than the 2G alternator pulley. The existing belt was difficult to install. If I remember correctly, the tensioner was at the tight end of the range for the belt…I think. Any who, I believe the belt under load applied excessive force on my p/s pump and it failed.
The Wrapalator appears to place constant downward pressure on the water pump. Under load applies more force than the small water pump bearing and housing can handle. Especially with the short span and the 2 fixed pulleys.
The ribbed side of serpentine belts do not slip like the backside in the factory drive.
I would tend to agree that the belt maybe too tight; that it places too much load on the pump bearing and that leads to seal and bearing failure. Consider a longer belt that Nos681 suggested and I’ll add check the tension applied from the belt tensioner.
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The tensioner is at mid-travel. I am thinking a longer belt will either be too loose or will be at the same tension.
I have to pull the belt and do something different. Was thinking maybe putting a six rib belt in place of the current eight rib belt.
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I am wondering if it might be a belt alignment issue. Any way to get a straight edge across the pullies?
Failing that I have one of these Gates laser alignment tools if you want to borrow it.
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Raymond_B wrote:
I am wondering if it might be a belt alignment issue. Any way to get a straight edge across the pullies?
Failing that I have one of these Gates laser alignment tools if you want to borrow it.
On my CVF setup it was pretty clear the belt alignment was off and it was the tensioner that needed to be shimmed by .100. I did remove about .060 from each idler to get it perfect. My tensioner doesn't have much travel to it and I too think a longer belt would be to loose. I like the idea MS has for a six rib belt but I'm not 100% it will decrease the load but it's the most logical next step.
CVF knows there is a failure is sure and can't figure it out or are refusing to address it. CVF told me I could not run a mechanical fan so they are clearly trying to pin the failure on mechanical fans.
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On the third water pump, I used a straightedge and very carefully shimmed everything so all pulleys were in perfect alignment. There are only NINE pulleys.
One thing I have figured out is that the bosses on all four water pumps are different heights from different manufacturers. So, shimming to fit one pump won’t necessarily fit the next pump. All the shims that were on the Tough Stuff pump went in the trash when I changed back to a CVF pump. And the Ford Racing pump was different than both of those. I have a shim between the water pump and its pulley to get it to align with the crank pulley. There is very little clearance between the eater pump pulley and crank pulley.
After typing that, I need to check to be sure the unseen rear flange of those two pulleys are not touching each other. The front of those pulleys rubbed together with the Tough Stuff pump installed. I used a grinder with a flapper wheel to remove the front flange from the crank pulley because it was rubbing the water pump pulley.
I did check the front flange clearance when installing pump #4, and there was about 1/16”
Bottom line: The CVF Wraptor system is a cluster of errors. I am very sorry that I bought it.
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Sounds like you need a cast iron body pump. I'm guessing all 4 pumps were aluminum?
Get a real man's pump! (trying to sound dramatic)
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Rufus68 wrote:
Sounds like you need a cast iron body pump. I'm guessing all 4 pumps were aluminum?
Get a real man's pump! (trying to sound dramatic)
They do not make the short nose water pump in anything other than aluminum. This is not a pump that ever came in any car.
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Never shoulda removed that reliable, easy-to-work-on 6 cylinder engine
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Rufus68 wrote:
Sounds like you need a cast iron body pump. I'm guessing all 4 pumps were aluminum?
Get a real man's pump! (trying to sound dramatic)
Yeah, trash the electric fans and serpentine and go back to stock style v-belt, pullies and fan.
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My March setup uses a standard stock style reverse rotation pump and will work with a mechanical fan. Clearance could be an issue if your current pump is much shorter than a stock 91. Not trying to spend your money but it might be an alternative. I have heard that the aluminum water pump pulley will likely wear over time but it looks brand new so far. I installed a stock heavy duty (HO with A/C) fan and an oddball clutch off of a jeep because I needed the 1/4" shorter unit to clear my radiator properly. I have the mid-mount A/C compressor on the passenger side. There's no easy way to revert to V-belts on my setup but if that isn't a problem with your setup, V-belts may be a better solution.
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Steve, how'd Jose's e-fan workout? Did it do what he needed?
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I'm not an expert but based on the images on the CVF site, there's not much belt contact with the water pump pulley, which can cause slippage and squealing. Worse, what contact there is will tend to push the top of the water pump pulley (and the water pump shaft) down and forward. I assume that's what's been happening with yours.
Were I in your position, I'd find a way to change that routing, maybe even going to a 2-belt system, to eliminate that issue. I know you're invested in what you have but it's fairly apparent that it's not designed well and isn't going to work over the long term.
There is a stock system that has proven to work really well. It's not as glitzy but you won't have to fix it every 1000 miles either.
Last edited by John Ha (6/15/2025 6:00 AM)
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Another option over v-belts is to go to the Fox serpentine system. The parts are easy to find on eBay used if you don't want to take a chance with the reproductions which are also available.
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TKOPerformance wrote:
Another option over v-belts is to go to the Fox serpentine system. The parts are easy to find on eBay used if you don't want to take a chance with the reproductions which are also available.
Gee MS, where have I heard that sentiment before?
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Yep
Bad decision. But, trying to make it work. Hate to admit it, but the electric fan works well. I took two days to shrink tube all the wiring and route it like factory where it does not show. I have always said it is not the thought of an electric fan, but the quality of the installation that was typically the problem. Most I see are haphazardly attached with wires cobbled together and lots of bright colored wires bundled together hanging everywhere.
The engine has a 195 degree thermostat. I set the controller to come on at 195. I drove around yesterday for 15 miles with the AC on, squealing belt all the time, and the temp never went over 195.
I went to the car wash and cleaned the belt thoroughly with the engine running so I could wash and rinse both sides of the belt with the engine running. The squealing stops as soon as any water contacts tge belt, then returns as soon as it dries out. Now it is mostly silent at idle but the noise returns with more rpm. Next I am going to replace the belt with a new one. Only problem is, with the electric fans in place, you cannot access the 1/2” drive hole in the tensioner to release the belt. I welded up a long handled tool that fits around the entire movable part of the tensioner to be able to actuate it.
The comments about the belt pushing down on the water pump just don’t hold water. Any water pump that is belt driven has a tight belt pulling on it from one direction or another. A v-belt is typically tightened with more tension on it than a serpentine spring-loaded belt.
I believe that removing the mechanical fan will help. They did not provide a properly centered adapter to mount it, even though they did sell me the adapter. I think the fan could be off-center by 0.015” and the imbalance did the deed on the pump. Time will tell if my theory holds up on that.
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MS I have the same issue with the tensioner where I can't get to it with the electric fans installed. I even had to remove the billet cover from the tensioner because it's so tight. I found I could put a 6" pipe wrench from underneath and grab the end of the tensioner and move it with ease to get the belt on and off.
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I think I found the source of the noise. Two of the idler pulleys have issues. One feels like the bearing is dry. It most likely is what I am hearing. Another idler is slipping where the bearings are pressed into it. It has slid 1/8” on the shaft, causing the belt to overlap the outer edge about 1/32”.
I sent pics and a description to CVF today. They have always responded and have sent two power steering pumps, a second water pump and a new alternator after each item failed. That alone does not represent a good record for the parts they supplied, but they do try to make good on stuff. I requested they replace all three idlers. These two failed ones only went 4,500 miles, and I think the dry one was making the noise I was hearing after the first thousand miles. I just noticed one of the clips that holds the p/s tank to the pump had come loose so now I have to pull the alternator AGAIN to be able to get to the clip.
Can you say. POOR QUALITY??? I can’t believe I am stuck with this thing. Replacing it will require completely redoing the AC system plumbing.
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What side is water pump inlet?
If it is on driver side…could you just eliminate the 2 top idler pulleys and use a smooth water pump pulley?
This would require a reverse rotation pump.
Last edited by Nos681 (6/15/2025 9:03 PM)
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MS wrote:
I think I found the source of the noise. Two of the idler pulleys have issues. One feels like the bearing is dry. It most likely is what I am hearing. Another idler is slipping where the bearings are pressed into it. It has slid 1/8” on the shaft, causing the belt to overlap the outer edge about 1/32”.
I sent pics and a description to CVF today. They have always responded and have sent two power steering pumps, a second water pump and a new alternator after each item failed. That alone does not represent a good record for the parts they supplied, but they do try to make good on stuff. I requested they replace all three idlers. These two failed ones only went 4,500 miles, and I think the dry one was making the noise I was hearing after the first thousand miles. I just noticed one of the clips that holds the p/s tank to the pump had come loose so now I have to pull the alternator AGAIN to be able to get to the clip.
Can you say. POOR QUALITY??? I can’t believe I am stuck with this thing. Replacing it will require completely redoing the AC system plumbing.
Just a thought, with that many CVF system component failures, you might want to try Facebook to see if there is a CVF page that others may have identified similar issues you're experiencing.
Again, just a thought.
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Nos681 wrote:
What side is water pump inlet?
If it is on driver side…could you just eliminate the 2 top idler pulleys and use a smooth water pump pulley?
This would require a reverse rotation pump.
I have thought of doing that, but the short water pump requires a short reverse rotation pump. This would be the simplest solution thet makes the most sense. I even asked CVF if it could be done and they had a million reasons why not. I think the only challenge might be getting a pulley with more offset do it would line ip. Listening, Bullet?
I am hoping that replacing the idlers and removing the fan will get this thing to live. I am just about to wear all the bolts out I have taken it off and on the car so many times.
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How much shorter is a short water pump vs. a standard one? I'm wondering if you could just run a standard pump and make a pulley that had the belt surface located in the appropriate location. You could also change the pulley diameter if that was viewed as advantageous, though it would change the speed at which the pump turned.
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