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TKOPerformance wrote:
How much shorter is a short water pump vs. a standard one? I'm wondering if you could just run a standard pump and make a pulley that had the belt surface located in the appropriate location. You could also change the pulley diameter if that was viewed as advantageous, though it would change the speed at which the pump turned.
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I had a pulley made for my Lightning so I could keep the stock serpentine setup, but run an SN95 water pump and front cover (long story, but blower related), anyway, having ASP make it cost me >$200.00 just FYI.
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I just got off the phone with CVF. They are sending three new idler pulleys. He also said to be sure and use the aluminum pulley fronts that attach with three bolts as they are designed to keep the bearings from sliding inside the pulley. I had left them off because they are a pain to install due to clearance issues and the fact that I kept repeatedly having to disassemble the entire setup.
I sure hope this fixes this mess once and for all.
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I do think the best long term solution is a reverse rotation pump.
Looking at a disassembled reverse rotation pump, I see no reason why it wouldn’t work going either direction. The cavity is symmetrical and the pump vanes are straight. Just a rambling thought. I have not investigated if that is the case with a normal rotation pump, but I think the cavity is formed to direct the flow in one direction only.
I need to find out what the difference is in the water pump length vs this short pump.
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MS wrote:
I do think the best long term solution is a reverse rotation pump.
Looking at a disassembled reverse rotation pump, I see no reason why it wouldn’t work going either direction. The cavity is symmetrical and the pump vanes are straight. Just a rambling thought. I have not investigated if that is the case with a normal rotation pump, but I think the cavity is formed to direct the flow in one direction only.
I need to find out what the difference is in the water pump length vs this short pump.
When I bought my blueprint engine last year it said standard rotation water pump only. The techs at blueprint reverse rotation wouldn't work. I had the front dress from 5.0 serpentine set up. I looked over both timing covers very closely, and they were the same. I used the reverse rotation and its working well. I don't know why you couldn't use the reverse rotation pump if from a timing cover standpoint. There the same.
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Steve69 wrote:
When I bought my blueprint engine last year it said standard rotation water pump only. The techs at blueprint reverse rotation wouldn't work. I had the front dress from 5.0 serpentine set up. I looked over both timing covers very closely, and they were the same. I used the reverse rotation and its working well. I don't know why you couldn't use the reverse rotation pump if from a timing cover standpoint. There the same.
Did ya happen to take pictures of both covers?
Last edited by Nos681 (6/16/2025 2:09 PM)
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Not the timing cover that is an issue. The existing water pump is real short andvnever was a pump that came on any car.
Pump #4 already leaking after 15 miles
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MS…do you have a picture of your tensioner spanner wrench?
The single source water pump does not sound like a good idea.
Can you please explain the requirement of the pulley covers?
I am having difficulty understanding it.
What electric fan is in the picture?…future reference…Thanks.
Your installation of the electric fan is very clean.
Last edited by Nos681 (6/17/2025 4:42 AM)
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MS wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
How much shorter is a short water pump vs. a standard one? I'm wondering if you could just run a standard pump and make a pulley that had the belt surface located in the appropriate location. You could also change the pulley diameter if that was viewed as advantageous, though it would change the speed at which the pump turned.
To expand on the idea, is it possible to measure the amount of offset needed to align with various Ford pumps? Then once you know the offset needed, look through various pullies Ford used on pumps over the years from any engine line? I remember a there is a site that has pictures and identification of many pullies. Maybe some mismatched combination could be found and shimmer to test it a standard pump would work. THEN a custom pretty aluminium pulley could be made.
Just a thought...
Last edited by Greg B (6/17/2025 7:34 PM)
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50vert wrote:
Steve, how'd Jose's e-fan workout? Did it do what he needed?
Jose decided to wait and see how my fans worked out. Meantime, he installed a new 195 tstat and is happy with the results.
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Do the pretty pictures on this site help with anything. I am just getting up to speed on this issue. If there is a way to solve this bearing issue, I'm going t!o try to help find it.
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I looked at all the different wraptor setups on their website and have a couple of thoughts. It's pretty clear the belt does not have enough contact with the water pump pulley. I wonder if you could try reconfiguring the belt. Here is what I mean. On the drivers side there are two idler pullies. Let the belt to from the power steering pump straight to the crank pulley, then use the lower idler pulley on the water pump. That seems like it would give it 20 to 30 degrees more contact t area
Take a look at how the wraptor system is configured for the fe engine. You will see what I mean. on that one those top idler pulley s are sitting much lower and give the belt more area on the water pump pulley. Maybe on the small block I setup they could be lowered?
I think this is a combination of weak bearing design, and a concentrated load on the pulley. The answer may be to get more belt around the water pump pulley.
Just thinking... No actual experience on the issue.
Last edited by Greg B (6/17/2025 10:36 PM)
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MS, is it just the angle of the picture or is the circled tensioner pulley a bit out of alignment?
Last edited by Raymond_B (6/18/2025 9:03 AM)
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Camera distortion. Everything aligns perfectly
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MS wrote:
The engine has a 195 degree thermostat. I set the controller to come on at 195. I drove around yesterday for 15 miles with the AC on, squealing belt all the time, and the temp never went over 195.
I think a thermostat is just starting to open at its rated temp, not fully open for at least another 10 degrees.
you're effectively trying to keep the stat closed.
On my 95 donor, with a factory 195 stat, using the big 95 2 speed fan the ecu doesn't turn low speed on till 210 degrees. It's not needed until natural airflow through the radiator is insufficient.
I suspect a Contour has similar settings. What is your off setpoint?
You maybe turning on the fan unnecessarily.
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Fan turns on at 195, then off at 185. It does cycle. The gauge reads steady 195 no matter if AC is on or stuck in traffic idling with AC or going down the highway at speed. I am impressed with that.
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Update after installing three new idlers and bearings.
No change. Still screeching noise that goes away with a splash of WD40 on the belt.
New belt ordered that will be here tomorrow. Water dripping but not coming from weep holes. Looks like passenger side between pump and timing cover on lower edge of pump.
If the new belt doesn’t magically make it run quiet, it is pump #5 time. Or, you can but the car cheap. I am about done.
It takes about eight hours to change a water pump on this thing. Looks pretty, but DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER USING ONE OF THESE THINGS.
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I still think it might be worth looking into to use the lower idler. I had found a website about industrial premature hearing failure and one of the causes was not enough contact of the drive belt with the pulley. It supposedly causes a low frequency harmonic vibration that is what causes the bearing to fail. I googled things like water pump bearing failures to find it.
I wonder if cvf knows this, and that.Maybe s why they are wanted the bling cover on. To try to limit vibrations.
Again just thinking.....researching...looking outside the box.
Last edited by Greg B (6/23/2025 6:58 AM)
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Greg B wrote:
I still think it might be worth looking into to use the lower idler. I had found a website about industrial premature hearing failure and one of the causes was not enough contact of the drive belt with the pulley. It supposedly causes a low frequency harmonic vibration that is what causes the bearing to fail. I googled things like water pump bearing failures to find it.
I wonder if cvf knows this, and that.Maybe s why they are wanted the bling cover on. To try to limit vibrations.
Again just thinking.....researching...looking outside the box.
My only input to that would be if this was a ‘manufacturing’ issue, it should be a common failure for this setup from CVT. I totally agree this is an odd issue, and that maybe there are multiple issues causing the problem. (That makes it more difficult to find)
If not tried already, I’d Google the issue and see if anything comes up.
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Today’s report:
I installed a new belt. The screeching noise went totally away. After watching it idle for a while, the water pump was dripping a little from the weep hole.
I took the car for a fifteen mile drive. Still no noise. Water pump has not dripped any at all since I returned home. Never heard of a leaking pump healing itself. I really do not want to go through the intensive effort required to replace the pump again.
I can not believe the amount of screeching, metal-on-metal noise that belt was producing.
The new belt, same brand and part number as the previous one, is a little thinner than the old one.
Fingers are crossed.
What do you buys think this car would be worth if I put it up for sale?
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This is what I used to operate the tensioner on the Wraptor system. There is no room to get a 1/2” breaker bar into the intended 1/2” square hole with the Contour fans in there.
This is a wrench for a counterrotating Ford water pump with a fan clutch.
Part # K-D 3136.
It fits around the entire tensioner rather than just fitting into the square 1/2” hole
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10:00pm update, same day new belt installed. After the car cooled off, the pump started leaking on the floor through the weep hole. A leak about the size of a half dollar coin has appeared six hours after driving the car. It is interesting that it does not leak when at operating temperature, once it cools, it starts to drip
I have no choice now but to just sell the car. I just cannot spend any more time on this issue.
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The seal maybe expanding when heated up, provided the seal, I’ve heard of that, but I haven’t heard of it start leaking again when cooled down.
Your whole experience is definitely a very odd situation.
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desperate times, desperate measures,
Bars Leak 1177 tablets.
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This is a real bummer MS. I wonder if CVF has a bad batch of pumps.
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