FYI FORD MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum / 66 V8 Coupe front alignment figures

**Posted by gkm24** 5/10/2024 3:33 PM

Please can anyone give me some figures for my front end alignment for my 66 V8 on radial tires without a Shelby drop?
My alignment shop only has figures for cross ply tires but said they could set it up to the figures I supply for them.

Thanks for any help.

**Posted by Texas!** 5/10/2024 5:25 PM

With or without the drop.
https://opentrackerracing.com/tech-info/

**Posted by Tubo** 5/10/2024 7:22 PM

0 to 1/8 toe in. Dang I fergit the rest.

Tubo

**Posted by lowercasesteve** 5/10/2024 9:49 PM

I use Open Tracker's alignment settings.

**Posted by Bullet Bob** 5/11/2024 6:21 AM

O - .5* NEGATIVE camber. As much POSITIVE caster as you can SAFELY get without so much shim that the upper control arm bolts won's stay tight...probably around 3* with stock parts. (Don't ask why I am an authority on this subject). 1/16" to 1/8" toe IN.
Good luck, Graham

**Posted by TKOPerformance** 5/11/2024 7:27 AM

Without the Shelby/Arning drop you are only going to be able to do so much. I used to run 1.5 degrees negaive camber, as much positive caster as possible, and 3/16" toe in before I did the drop. Wit the drop I run 0.5 degrees negative camber, 3.5 degrees positive caster on the right and 3.75 degrees on the left (accounts for road crown very well), and 1/8" toe in (1/16" per side) with the tie rods the same length so the wheel is centered. The car handles far better than it ever did without the drop, even with less camber, and the drop also moves the upper A arm rearward so you get more positive caster built in. The biggest issue with the early cars is the shim adjustment. I'd highly recommend upgrading to adjustable strut rods, so you only have to shim for caster.

**Posted by gkm24** 5/11/2024 8:30 AM

Thank you all for your replies.

**Posted by John Ha** 5/12/2024 4:49 AM

My 66 has the Arning mod, and I came up with a way to keep the shims in place with larger differences in the front-rear shim thicknesses. I'm currently running about 4° of positive caster with stock strut rods and control arms, although I did offset the upper control arms 1/2 turn to help a little with the caster.

**Posted by True74yamaha** 5/12/2024 5:38 AM

Original poster does your car have borgeson steering box?

**Posted by gkm24** 5/13/2024 11:53 AM

Steering box is original with power steering from factory.

**Posted by 6sally6** 5/15/2024 12:19 PM

John Ha wrote:
My 66 has the Arning mod, and I came up with a way to keep the shims in place with larger differences in the front-rear shim thicknesses. I'm currently running about 4° of positive caster with stock strut rods and control arms, although I did offset the upper control arms 1/2 turn to help a little with the caster.

Nice work John Ha !!!! True hot rod-isum (zata word?!) I'm sure that will work better than taping the shims together (like 'some-one-I-know')
6sal6

**Posted by rpm** **Online!** 5/15/2024 3:46 PM

Best advice I got was to do the drop. You won't regret it. True story.

**Posted by John Ha** 5/16/2024 7:47 AM

RPM, aka Bearing Bob wrote:
Best advice I got was to do the drop. You won't regret it. True story.

Not bashing anyone or anything, but I've heard this same thing over and over. I did mine and have noticed absolutely no difference while doing sane, street-legal driving.

**Posted by John Ha** 5/16/2024 7:50 AM

6sally6 wrote:
Nice work John Ha !!!! True hot rod-isum (zata word?!) I'm sure that will work better than taping the shims together (like 'some-one-I-know')
6sal6

Thanks! I owe Bullet Bob for the foundation. He machined a wedge for his. I didn't have the tools to do that so with a little lateral thinking, came up with what is fundamentally the same thing - just a slightly different implementation.

Thanks Bullet Bob!

Last edited by John Ha (5/16/2024 8:07 AM)

**Posted by Ron68** 5/16/2024 5:39 PM

John Ha wrote:
RPM, aka Bearing Bob wrote:
Best advice I got was to do the drop. You won't regret it. True story.
Not bashing anyone or anything, but I've heard this same thing over and over. I did mine and have noticed absolutely no difference while doing sane, street-legal driving.

Guess I'm with the crowd that proclaims the drop is definitely worth it. When I did the drop on my 68, the handling was noticeably much improved with more stability in curves and no wandering tendencies while driving straight ahead. And at going on 75, I don't do a lot of "aggressive" driving with it, but on occasion I do have to warm up the tires and blow the carbon out.....

**Posted by John Ha** 5/17/2024 2:52 PM

Ron68 wrote:
Guess I'm with the crowd that proclaims the drop is definitely worth it. When I did the drop on my 68, the handling was noticeably much improved with more stability in curves and no wandering tendencies while driving straight ahead.

I appreciate the comment, and I'm not starting a food fight or disparaging you, but the improvements you mention can all be had with a competent, good quality front-end alignment, without the Arning mod.

But, if it works for you, then that's all there is to say about it.

**Posted by TKOPerformance** 5/18/2024 6:28 AM

John Ha wrote:
Ron68 wrote:
Guess I'm with the crowd that proclaims the drop is definitely worth it. When I did the drop on my 68, the handling was noticeably much improved with more stability in curves and no wandering tendencies while driving straight ahead.
I appreciate the comment, and I'm not starting a food fight or disparaging you, but the improvements you mention can all be had with a competent, good quality front-end alignment, without the Arning mod.

But, if it works for you, then that's all there is to say about it.

Here, have some mashed potatoes! I've got to disagree. I've run my car with the drop and without. Brand new suspension both ways, properly aligned both ways. You may not notice it driving around, but if you ever push the car the difference is night and day. The improvement in camber curve and the gain in positive caster makes the car feel much more planted and stable through turns at high speed. What really gets me is that I have a full degree less negative camber in it now, and it still handles better, and it wears the tires more evenly. If the drop wasn't worth it Shelby wouldn't have done it, and only stopped doing ti when the bean counters at Ford decided it cost too much. For the cost involved its also a no brainer (you can probably find a member here who will loan you the template, drill bit, etc.(I would)).

**Posted by rpm** **Online!** 5/18/2024 8:15 AM

TKOPerformance wrote:
John Ha wrote:
Ron68 wrote:
Guess I'm with the crowd that proclaims the drop is definitely worth it. When I did the drop on my 68, the handling was noticeably much improved with more stability in curves and no wandering tendencies while driving straight ahead.
I appreciate the comment, and I'm not starting a food fight or disparaging you, but the improvements you mention can all be had with a competent, good quality front-end alignment, without the Arning mod.

But, if it works for you, then that's all there is to say about it.
Here, have some mashed potatoes! I've got to disagree. I've run my car with the drop and without. Brand new suspension both ways, properly aligned both ways. You may not notice it driving around, but if you ever push the car the difference is night and day. The improvement in camber curve and the gain in positive caster makes the car feel much more planted and stable through turns at high speed. What really gets me is that I have a full degree less negative camber in it now, and it still handles better, and it wears the tires more evenly. If the drop wasn't worth it Shelby wouldn't have done it, and only stopped doing ti when the bean counters at Ford decided it cost too much. For the cost involved its also a no brainer (you can probably find a member here who will loan you the template, drill bit, etc.(I would)).

HERE HERE! Preach it bro.

**Posted by 6sally6** 5/18/2024 9:57 AM

I did it ALL...one piece export brace....monte carlo bar...1" sway bar...AND the roller spring perches....with the Arning/Shelby drop. Handles like a TOTALLY different car.(Including Corvettes!)
Even with my worn out shocks its still a GREAT improvement.
6sally6

**Posted by John Ha** 5/19/2024 8:24 AM

TKOPerformance wrote:
You may not notice it driving around, but if you ever push the car the difference is night and day.

Exactly my experience. It made/makes no difference in "sane, legal driving"

TKOPerformance wrote:
The improvement in camber curve and the gain in positive caster makes the car feel much more planted and stable through turns at high speed. ... If the drop wasn't worth it Shelby wouldn't have done it, and only stopped doing ti when the bean counters at Ford decided it cost too much.

But Shelby's cars were an exception (other production Mustangs didn't get that mod) expected to do amazing things in race environments (and aggressive street driving environments). I have no aspirations to do anything but normal driving - no tracks, no parking lot contests, no stop light contests. I own the car to drive and enjoy the nostalgia and experience of the "good old days".

TKOPerformance wrote:
(you can probably find a member here who will loan you the template, drill bit, etc.).

I've done it on mine (24-ish years ago), which is why I said "I did mine and have noticed absolutely no difference while doing sane, street-legal driving." But if it works for you, then that's great and there's nothing more to say.

Last edited by John Ha (5/19/2024 8:28 AM)

**Posted by TKOPerformance** 5/19/2024 12:35 PM

I built the car to have fun. That doesn't mean driving like an idiot and putting others on the road at risk. On a twisty back road where the only risk is mine I'm going to have fun. If that's insane then sanity is overrated.

We modify these cars to make them better. Better has a subjective definition. Shelby also modified the cars to make them better, specifically to make them perform better. Ford would have done it, but they showed time and again that when they really wanted to win they had a winner modify the cars. Shelby was the first, but by no means the last. He did what worked. Ford didn't follow suit because the bean counters saw no benefit (they would sell the same number of cars with the change as without). That's how corporations think, and why we love the vehicles they built, yet at times despise their commitment to the almighty dollar above performance, quality, longevity, etc.

I've yet to hear from the person who did the drop and regretted it. Maybe he/she is out there somewhere, but not from what I've seen on this forum.

**Posted by John Ha** 5/20/2024 12:42 PM

TKOPerformance wrote:
We modify these cars to make them better. Better has a subjective definition.

Personally, I think that modifying them defeats the whole purpose of owning one. The charm is the experience of driving a classic car, not something that's been welded, fiberglassed, drilled, lowered, and equipped with suspensions, engines and transmissions that were never offered from the factory in the days when the "Secretary's Cars" were built. If one wants something that handles and performs like a "modern" car, then IMHO they should buy a modern car rather than hacking up what may possibly be a relatively rare and expensive original car.

TKOPerformance wrote:
I've yet to hear from the person who did the drop and regretted it. Maybe he/she is out there somewhere, but not from what I've seen on this forum.

I regret doing it. I went to the effort of making a template, pulling the front suspension off, and drilling 4 new holes in an otherwise pristine and original shock tower, all for no appreciable change.

Last edited by John Ha (5/20/2024 12:47 PM)

**Posted by Rudi** 5/20/2024 1:13 PM

John Ha wrote:
TKOPerformance wrote:
We modify these cars to make them better. Better has a subjective definition.
Personally, I think that modifying them defeats the whole purpose of owning one. The charm is the experience of driving a classic car, not something that's been welded, fiberglassed, drilled, lowered, and equipped with suspensions, engines and transmissions that were never offered from the factory in the days when the "Secretary's Cars" were built. If one wants something that handles and performs like a "modern" car, then IMHO they should buy a modern car rather than hacking up what may possibly be a relatively rare and expensive original car.
TKOPerformance wrote:
I've yet to hear from the person who did the drop and regretted it. Maybe he/she is out there somewhere, but not from what I've seen on this forum.
I regret doing it. I went to the effort of making a template, pulling the front suspension off, and drilling 4 new holes in an otherwise pristine and original shock tower, all for no appreciable change.

You can always weld up the Arning drop holes and put it back to original.

**Posted by 6sally6** 5/20/2024 6:45 PM

John Ha......YOU need to make a trip to Bakersfield my friend !! Sounds like you and I kinda/sorta think alike on owning a classic Mustang.
I like to 'soup-them-up' to sound and run like they woulda when I was a teen in the 60's
I just didn't have the $$ or the knowledge then to make it happen)
I have jokingly stated before "I THINK" they are suppose to stink...ride kinda stiff...be a little cantankerous to drive..noisy..etc
Others have their ideas what makes a cool Mustang.
6sal6

**Posted by TKOPerformance** 5/20/2024 7:29 PM

We could all just own cars anyone could have bought 50-60 years ago, and maybe if the car were rare (Shelby, Boss, etc.) that would appeal to me. A base model car they built over 53,000 of doesn't qualify IMO. Drilling 4 holes didn't devalue the car. Mundane examples of these cars are worth more tastefully modified than restored to 100% stock, because people want to drive them (to be clear I don't care what makes the car valuale to anyone else). The only exception is a mint or near mint survivor, which my car was not. We aren't talking about some aftermarket chassis, modern interior, Coyote swapped, $250,000 shop built SEMA car. We're talking about making some changes to make the car more fun to drive, so it gets driven more.

Last edited by TKOPerformance (5/20/2024 7:31 PM)