FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

8/22/2020 6:54 PM  #1


I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Here is what I know:
351W higher miles but fantastic compression and oil pressure.  Ran really well on the engine run stand.  (it's an extra engine I pulled from a 95 F150 about 5 months ago)  When I took the oil out there was no metal in it, no "sparkles" or grit.  Today I fired up the pressure washer and cleaned off the outside and stripped it down to the rotating assembly.  I am planning to paint it, replace the heads with higher compression heads and replace all the gaskets.  When I pulled the pan I found this in the bottom.





Not sure what this is.  The average size of the piece are about the size of a BB 1/8" - 3/16".  The metal is non ferrous and is brittle.  I was able to snap one of those longer pieces in half with no effort.  It looks like solder, or tin.  the one "splatter" in the top picture really really looks like solder.  I took one piece and put a butane torch to it and it liquified immediately so I am guessing the melting temperature is  300º or less.  I am not worried about the engine and the crud has been removed... but what the heck is it and how did it get there?


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

8/22/2020 7:29 PM  #2


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I've never seen anything like it either!
Poured in with oil by a PO ex-wife??


"Those telephone poles were like a picket fence"
 

8/22/2020 8:03 PM  #3


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Looks like Babbitt.  I would expect you to find a main or cam bearing that is 110% toast.

 

8/23/2020 6:35 AM  #4


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I agree it looks like solder.  I would suspect some type of repair to the timing cover maybe?

 

8/23/2020 10:27 AM  #5


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I would tear the engine all the way down and inspect everything.  My thought is that it may not be metal, at least not in the conventional sense.  I'm wondering if this isn't the fallout from one of those head gasket sealer or other engine fix in a bottle treatment.  My thought was excessive silicone use, but obviously that's not what it is.  So then I thought about some kind of epoxy like JB Weld, etc. 

 

8/23/2020 10:49 AM  #6


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Back in the sixties there was a product called MotorManic or something like that, It looks just like that in your pan. it was to make the motor stop smoking. I have found stuff, must be Ford gremlins in my pan that no one can explain also.

Last edited by Cab4word67 (8/23/2020 10:50 AM)


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

8/23/2020 11:17 AM  #7


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Not in the pan but imbedded on one of the pistons.
I had a Boonie Bug van with a Corvair engine that had  been on the road for a couple of years. One day while towing a camping trailer it developed a kind of a knock, more like a rap though.
The engine had never been opened and was still original. When I took the heads off there was a half inch long piece of piston ring pounded onto one of the pistons that hit the head on every up stroke.  On further disassembly every ring on every piston was still intact and where it came from is still a mystery.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/23/2020 2:33 PM  #8


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

That is definitely unusual, Daze.  The only thing I know of inside an engine that remotely resembles that stuff would be bearing material.  But, you have test run the engine with no unusual noises.  Inquiring minds want to know!!!

Are you going to remove bearing caps to see what is there?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/23/2020 4:20 PM  #9


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Maybe they used lead to balance the crank, got hot and it melted.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/23/2020 8:24 PM  #10


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Sadly you were correct

Bentworker wrote:

Looks like Babbitt. I would expect you to find a main or cam bearing that is 110% toast.

I pulled the main caps and the main bearings looked good all be it worn.  The cam bearings were a different story 3 out of 5 were completely shot and missing sections. However the cam looked good.  The middle section had some marking on it but nothing that I wasn't able to polish out.   Not sure why this engine was running "fine" and not making noise.  It confirms an "oil issue" that I knew about but thought I had avoided when the engine sounded good.  The previous owner (before he died) told me that after the truck was wrecked and brought to his house the oil lite came on.  He checked the oil and it was way low so he filled it up and fired up the truck.  The steering was messed up in the wreck making it almost undriveable (I think it was toed to his house) but he was able to drive it around to the back of his house where the oil light came on again.  When I pulled the motor I saw the oil filter was bent and not seated properly from the wreck and the reason for the oil problem.  After pulling the motor I put it on the run stand, changed the oil and crossed my fingers.  When it ran fine (I still can't believe it ran fine)  I figured it had not been without oil long enough to cause major issues.  Guess I was wrong.  looks like I need to fire up the lathe and make a cam bearing removal tool.
 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/23/2020 9:55 PM  #11


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Cab4word67 wrote:

Back in the sixties there was a product called MotorManic or something like that, It looks just like that in your pan. it was to make the motor stop smoking. I have found stuff, must be Ford gremlins in my pan that no one can explain also.

Years ago my son Had a Lincoln MK 7 with a 5.0L in it. He was driving down the freeway when the engine started making noises and his oil pressure went to zero. He pulled over and called me and we got it towed home. I pulled the engine and found a couple of small steel pellets in the pan, and one in the oil pump. It had seized and the driveshaft for the pump had twisted in half. I got a new pump, driveshaft and after looking at all the rod and main bearings, I replaced them all with stock sized bearings as there was no damage and minimal wear. Reinstalled it and it ran fine. I could not figure out where those three steel pellets had come from. I called a guy who ran a rebuild shop and asked him and he didn't know what they were either. However, a couple of weeks later, he called me and said he had figured it out. The pellets had come from some valve cover gaskets. The gaskets had the pellets embedded in them to keep the gaskets from being over tightened. He had another engine come in that had some in the pan. Someone in the past had replaced the gaskets and didn't notice the pellets falling into the head where they were eventually washed by oil flow into the pan. Strange things found in the pan for sure. 
 


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

8/24/2020 12:03 PM  #12


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!



This pic is from the oil pump in Warley’s 86 5.0 upon initial teardown.  From the newer Fel-Pro valve cover gaskets I have seen lately, they have vastly improved the way they attach these spacers now.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/24/2020 3:14 PM  #13


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Daze wrote:

Sadly you were correct

Bentworker wrote:

Looks like Babbitt. I would expect you to find a main or cam bearing that is 110% toast.

I pulled the main caps and the main bearings looked good all be it worn.  The cam bearings were a different story 3 out of 5 were completely shot and missing sections. However the cam looked good.  The middle section had some marking on it but nothing that I wasn't able to polish out.   Not sure why this engine was running "fine" and not making noise.  It confirms an "oil issue" that I knew about but thought I had avoided when the engine sounded good.  The previous owner (before he died) told me that after the truck was wrecked and brought to his house the oil lite came on.  He checked the oil and it was way low so he filled it up and fired up the truck.  The steering was messed up in the wreck making it almost undriveable (I think it was toed to his house) but he was able to drive it around to the back of his house where the oil light came on again.  When I pulled the motor I saw the oil filter was bent and not seated properly from the wreck and the reason for the oil problem.  After pulling the motor I put it on the run stand, changed the oil and crossed my fingers.  When it ran fine (I still can't believe it ran fine)  I figured it had not been without oil long enough to cause major issues.  Guess I was wrong.  looks like I need to fire up the lathe and make a cam bearing removal tool.
 

Be sure to check the oil pump, years ago when I wiped some main bearings on our drag car (289), some bearing material did make its way into the pump, but we did have oil pressure.
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

8/24/2020 3:36 PM  #14


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I seriously doubt that the material is babbitt. The Babbitt layer on laminated layer insert bearings in a car engine are very thin and does not seem to be of sufficient quantity to what is in the oil pan.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

8/24/2020 3:52 PM  #15


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Rudi wrote:

I seriously doubt that the material is babbitt. The Babbitt layer on laminated layer insert bearings in a car engine are very thin and does not seem to be of sufficient quantity to what is in the oil pan.

Also, why wouldn't it be ground up to dust in the oil?  I don't see babbitt clumping together to form that. 
 

 

8/26/2020 3:10 PM  #16


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Rudi wrote:

I seriously doubt that the material is babbitt. The Babbitt layer on laminated layer insert bearings in a car engine are very thin and does not seem to be of sufficient quantity to what is in the oil pan.

But Babbitt it is! When I tore into it I could see that cam bearings 2, 3, and 4 were trashed.  1 and five looked like every other bearing in the engine, worn but not bad.  I tried to take some pix of the bearings in the block but could not get the camera to focus on the bearings.  Yesterday I machined a driver.  I was really worried I would not be able to get them out but I was easily able to removed all 5.  Here is a pic of the worst one # 3
  

The intacted section of Babbitt was at the bottom.  I think it was run long enough without oil to melt the Babbitt (which I have learned melts at 300º" BUT not run long enough or fast enough to cause all the babbitt to leave the bearing.  With bearings 1 and 5 intact the cam was held in place and allowed the babbitt to harden back up.  This is why the engine was running "fine" the little I ran it because it was not long, there was no load, it was mostly at idle and there was enough bearing material to hold the cam in place.  Im going to replace all the bearings and put it back together.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/27/2020 4:42 AM  #17


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Seeing that kind of damage I would be taking everything to the machine shop to at least verify that nothing is out of whack.

 

8/27/2020 8:49 AM  #18


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Cool! 
Looks just like a miniature version of when a big bearing gets wiped at work.

 

8/29/2020 7:34 AM  #19


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

TKOPerformance wrote:

Seeing that kind of damage I would be taking everything to the machine shop to at least verify that nothing is out of whack.

I agree, seems something seems out of whack, suggest checking the oil passages to the cam bearings.  Maybe the cam bearings weren't installed properly aligned to the oil passages? 
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

8/29/2020 11:44 AM  #20


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I never would have guessed that.

 

8/29/2020 3:14 PM  #21


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

BobE wrote:

I agree, seems something seems out of whack, suggest checking the oil passages to the cam bearings.  Maybe the cam bearings weren't installed properly aligned to the oil passages? 
 

I think it was just a lack of oil and the result of the wreck.  The truck ran beautifully before the wreck and as I said before it was run with all the oil pumping out which would mean no pressure to the cam bearing but the crank and rod bearings would still see some from the pan.

Daze wrote:

 It confirms an "oil issue" that I knew about but thought I had avoided when the engine sounded good.  The previous owner (before he died) told me that after the truck was wrecked and brought to his house the oil light came on.  He checked the oil and it was way low so he filled it up and fired up the truck.  The steering was messed up in the wreck making it almost undriveable (I think it was toed to his house) but he was able to drive it around to the back of his house where the oil light came on again.  When I pulled the motor I saw the oil filter was bent and not seated properly from the wreck and the reason for the oil problem.  After pulling the motor I put it on the run stand, changed the oil and crossed my fingers.  When it ran fine (I still can't believe it ran fine)  I figured it had not been without oil long enough to cause major issues.  Guess I was wrong.  looks like I need to fire up the lathe and make a cam bearing removal tool.
 

The bearings were the OEM FoMoCo units, in fact I don't think anyone had been inside this motor since the original build.

 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/29/2020 3:29 PM  #22


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Hood forensics, Daze.

Reminds me of when our Plymouth Caravan got stolen back around 1989. The cops chased the thief until he crashed it into a dry drainage ditch, where it landed on its side and continued to run for quite some time.

Body damage was minimal but insurance totaled it because it sat there and ran with no oil pressure for a while.  I guess you are dealing with similar damage. .


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/29/2020 3:51 PM  #23


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

I am thrilled this whole thing happened. What a fantastic learning experience. The engine was a spare and I never put it in a car so there was no lost time there.  Not only did I see somthing I had never seen before but I also learned several ways to change cam bearings with out farming it out to the shop.  It's just one more thing I can add to my knowledge base.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

8/29/2020 3:56 PM  #24


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

Plus the knowledge of the damage before installing it saved enough work to pay for that fan-dancy run stand you built.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/29/2020 5:00 PM  #25


Re: I have never seen this in an oil pan!!!!

The ever inquisitive and talented Daze...strikes again!
How bout machine the block to take some one off roller bearing cam bearings!
If anyone could do it......
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.