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1/30/2021 3:29 PM  #1


Will Wonders Never Cease?

Welp, I finished up the big work on my auto tranny to toploader  swap and the 69 actually moves forward, backwards and shifts gears like a real car. Still need to install the hood, dash pad and center console top insert. Took her out for a few miles test drive without any odd noises or whining from the jenner or newly installed 3.25 traction lok rear gears. She shifts real nice. I'm flummoxed, and relieved.








It was a bigger job than I'd expected. This toploader is an odd duck that I'd not heard of till about a year ago. It's an SMOD, 4 speed with 4th being .78 OD. They were offered on 1977-78 trucks and vans with a 300 ci six, or 351W. A lot of guys don't like them as 4th gear isn't normal toploader tough, and it takes a bit of work to get them to fit anything other than the vehicle they came on. The tailhousing shifter bosses don't accept a quality shifter, so I made one to accept a Hurst Comp Plus. The 3-4 shifter rod lever needs to be flipped 180° so a normal 1 thru 4 shift is in the correct order.



The shifter rods aren't my favorite anodized color, but who's gonna see them?



I found my tranny on craigslist over in Ojai, a few miles from Santa Barbara for $300. All the parts I could see thru the top looked to be in pristine condition. So I decided to run it as is after cleaning it thoroughly.

I really wanted to use a cable clutch, but gave up on it because of LOFT, lack of flipping talent. I ended up using a MDL set up with Wilwood master cylinder and Tilton hydraulic release bearing. The master uses a bell crank and bracket that mounts to the interior firewall where the stock Z bar clutch rod goes thru the firewall. Getting it mounted properly is a major pita. The bracket has to be clearanced to fit a small flat vertical area that is next to the fuse box, and uneven areas of the firewall. This took many tries of  grinding and checking the fit, which for me was back breaking work. Not fun.



My clutch pedal was way off in alignment to the brake pedal, which I thought would be an easy fix. I ended up making a fixture with the brake pedal to get the clutch pedal aligned pretty close.






I picked up a manual brake pedal hanger and figured I might as well do the MS bearing mod. I turned a piece of scrap rod to keep the shaft bearing retainer centered and flush with the existing hanger hole while tack welding the retainer. Later I learned from MS that if you use 2 of them connected to a rod or threaded rod, it keeps both bearing retainers parallel. What a nice kit. I'm sure I won't be the last person to recommend this mod.





To fit the shifter in the tunnel hole laterally I needed a stick with a 2" offset, along with the correct height and length to the rear. Finding one didn't happen. Luckily i had my brother's 69 M1 with Hurst shifter to go off to make one that fit.







I went with a McLeod pressure plate and a Centerforce clutch disc.

I seriously thought I'd get this winter party project completed in 2-3 weeks. Ya, well, wishful thinking.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

1/30/2021 3:36 PM  #2


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

I had an Srod in my 69 coupe behind a straight 6 250.

The first three ratios were way off from where they needed to be. Overdrive was ok on the highway.  I did not like shifting it driving through neighborhood or slow streets as the ratios just did not work. I hope you like yours better.

I took it out and put a T5 in it. Then it drove like a sports car.

Your probably has enough torque to make it work.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/30/2021 3:59 PM  #3


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Dang, I planned on mentioning the ratios, but then I saw a squirrel. After I had bought all the parts and installed the 3.25 rear gears, I learned about the funky ratios. I may have read it earlier but I didn't retain the info. During the test drive noises and function had top priority, but I kept the ratio concern in mind the whole way. I could tell they were not optimum, but whether I get used to them or they bug the daylight out of me will be seen. I have been warming up to the T5 family of trannies. If nothing else, this project has been an education. And education ain't free


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/30/2021 4:10 PM  #4


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

T5 is a fine trans.  I'd either build a T5 using Astro or G-Force gears or get a Tremec with the better synchros so it shifts like a T5 and not a dump truck. 

 

1/30/2021 4:24 PM  #5


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Really nice fab work and planning. Sorta what 'old-skool-hot-rodding' is all about.
About the "truck' gear ratios.......with that big-honk'in 400+ cu. in engine.......I bet you can pretty well start off in ANY gear while city driving!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/30/2021 4:43 PM  #6


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Speaking of fabbing, I did have to notch the tranny crossmember to clear the shifter rods. And I was able to use the stock length Exploder alum drive shaft (~50-5/8") but had to use the longer pinion yoke. I'm also using an N case pumpkin with Daytona support, which sticks out ~1/2" more than a standard support bearing.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/30/2021 5:32 PM  #7


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

BEE-UTE-EEE-FULL  Work Bob...as usual.  Jenner...took a minute.  Bad!

I had heard of that trans years ago but never knew anyone that could verify that it actually existed.  Sure hope it works out well for you.

BB1


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

1/30/2021 5:36 PM  #8


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

I feel your pain from installing that Wilwood master cylinder bracket under the dash.  I think my hands are still healing from when I put mine in the 66.
Great pictures.

Last edited by BobC (1/30/2021 5:37 PM)


Bash Host MSBB XVI.       BobC    1966 Mustang Coupe
 

1/30/2021 6:46 PM  #9


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Bullet Bob wrote:

BEE-UTE-EEE-FULL  Work Bob...as usual.  Jenner...took a minute.  Bad!

I had heard of that trans years ago but never knew anyone that could verify that it actually existed.  Sure hope it works out well for you.

BB1

Thanks Bob. I fingered someone would get the Jenner, not surprised it were you.
 


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/30/2021 6:50 PM  #10


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

BobC wrote:

I feel your pain from installing that Wilwood master cylinder bracket under the dash.  I think my hands are still healing from when I put mine in the 66.
Great pictures.

 
Right? Maybe if I had the lower dash out, maybe if I weren't 25 lbs over weight, maybe if I were a teenager, maybe if...
After I had mine installed I saw one that had the master mounted to the pedal hanger assembly. Hmm...


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/30/2021 7:03 PM  #11


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Why would master cylinder NOT just bolt to the pedal support like a stock manual brake master cylinder?  What is different?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/30/2021 7:54 PM  #12


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Bearing Bob wrote:

Bullet Bob wrote:

BEE-UTE-EEE-FULL  Work Bob...as usual.  Jenner...took a minute.  Bad!

I had heard of that trans years ago but never knew anyone that could verify that it actually existed.  Sure hope it works out well for you.

BB1

Thanks Bob. I fingered someone would get the Jenner, not surprised it were you.
 

Poor Caitlyn....can't catch a break

 

1/31/2021 12:17 AM  #13


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Congrats Bob on making it move under it’s own power again. 

How was it getting the clutch bled out and adjusted?


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

1/31/2021 1:22 AM  #14


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

MS wrote:

Why would master cylinder NOT just bolt to the pedal support like a stock manual brake master cylinder?  What is different?

I've no idea of their reasoning Steve. Here's their pic of it.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/31/2021 1:27 AM  #15


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Bolted to Floor wrote:

Congrats Bob on making it move under it’s own power again. 

How was it getting the clutch bled out and adjusted?

 
Thanks John. Bleeding the clutch was a breeze, after I realized ALL the fittings needed to be tightened   Gravity bled it, then use a syringe they provide to blast 50cc of brake fluid thru the system with the bleeder cracked. One man bleed job, and it was rock solid.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/31/2021 1:08 PM  #16


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Awesome work as usual!

I’m flummoxed by your LOFT.

 

1/31/2021 5:57 PM  #17


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Nos681 wrote:

I’m flummoxed by your LOFT.

Right? Me too.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

1/31/2021 10:02 PM  #18


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Oh, you meant CLUTCH master cylinder...  I thought it was brake master cylinder.

Now it makes sense. That is their way of getting the ratio correct and the linkage down where they want it to be.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/01/2021 1:47 AM  #19


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

I have to ask, what is the bar with the clevis and pin coming out  of the floor where the dimmer switch would be located?


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

2/01/2021 6:16 AM  #20


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Ron68 wrote:

I have to ask, what is the bar with the clevis and pin coming out  of the floor where the dimmer switch would be located?

More than likely its part of his roll bar set up that has swing away side bars.

I too doubt this is true LOFT!!!!  You clearly have skills and perform clean professional looking work.

 

2/01/2021 3:13 PM  #21


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

RTM wrote:

Ron68 wrote:

I have to ask, what is the bar with the clevis and pin coming out  of the floor where the dimmer switch would be located?

More than likely its part of his roll bar set up that has swing away side bars.

I too doubt this is true LOFT!!!!  You clearly have skills and perform clean professional looking work.

 
BINGO! Ya, it was one of those while I'm at it thingies. After installing the roll bar I figured it would be easier to add the down bars with a stripped interior than later on and have to do more work to install them. Of course I've never used them, aaand had to make thinner door trim panels to clear the bar. Oy. And instead of paying big bucks for the tube end clevis/hinge, I made them.










Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

2/01/2021 6:37 PM  #22


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

"...I made them...:"
.........'skewz'-me-while-I-show-off-a-little...."    
Really nice work...(Again)
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/01/2021 8:17 PM  #23


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Okay...I'm old and slow, and I musta missed something somewhere.  So...what the hel..p is LOFT. 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

2/01/2021 10:15 PM  #24


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

LOFT is an acronym for lack of f'ing talent.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     Thread Starter
 

2/01/2021 10:31 PM  #25


Re: Will Wonders Never Cease?

Looks like Victor is ready to go cruizin’

Last edited by Nos681 (2/01/2021 10:33 PM)

 

Board footera


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