FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

1/23/2023 3:20 PM  #1


Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I just picked up a 1976 F100, I have had several Dent Sides in my lifetime, pretty much what got me through High School. I am excited and having fun with this purchase so far and Have several plans that I will share later. 

My issues is, while the motor runs great, and is quiet, has good compression and oil pressure, there is a vibration in the motor, and I don't think it's anything internal. Now first of all its defiantly motor and not driveline, It is felt setting still, in park or neutral, idling or revving up.

Additional information, the end of the starter teeth are chewed up as well as the end of the flex plate teeth.

It is a 302, C4 Auto.

It appears to have a newer replacement starter, and the flexplate inspection cover is gone, so it's been apart at some time. My first thoughts are that either it has a cracked flex plate which would cause the vibration but not the chewed up teeth. or it has the wrong starter which could cause the chewed up teeth but not the vibration.

 

1/23/2023 5:10 PM  #2


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

The starter/flex plate condition could be just someone engaging the starter with the engine already running, and could have been like this for some time. 
I think more info is needed to help with vibration issue; is this the original engine and transmission, how many miles on the engine, did you check the vibration damper hasn’t slipped on the rubber mounting, ignition wires and spark plug condition, does this have a ‘points’ style original distributor (the distributor cam lobes could be worn), does the vibration get worse as the engine revs up, or under load, carburetor been replaced or rebuilt, etc, etc.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/23/2023 5:50 PM  #3


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Appears to be original motor, 87K miles, so I would assume 187K,
Original Duraspark ing,
The timing is good, so I will assume the damper is good. And I believe the counterweight are mounted to the center part of the balancer, the outer ring slipping would only impact the timing.
Plugs and wires are acceptable,
The vibration is not on any particular cylinder firing,
The vibration is 100% of the time, just idling and as it revs up.
As you are driving, once up to 50 plus, it becomes more harmonic,
The Carb performs really well (Autolite  2100)
There is a tinny sound under acceleration 85 % of the time which made me think cracked flex plate, but it doesn't do it when torquing the motor by holding the brake.

I don't think it is anything like ignition, miss-fire, because it runs well and has good power.

I don't think it related to a bad cam loab as the motor is really quiet, and the times I have had a worn loab on a cam, I also has rocker noise.

When cranking the motor, it sounds like there's an alignment issue, sounds like a Chevy that need the starter shimmed.
 

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2023 5:55 PM  #4


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

It obviously needs the starter and flex plate replaced, so I will be pulling the trans, and will be able to inspect the flex plate at that time and make sure it gets the correct flex plate and starter reinstalled. 

I will pull the Harmonic balancer off as well to check it out,

Just curious if anyone has any other things to check while at that point? The motor runs really well, just not smooth.

 

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2023 5:57 PM  #5


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Get a squirt bottle and fill with water.
When the engine is hot....give each exhaust port on the manifold a squirt.
IF one does NOT sizzle ....that's the weak cylinder...or bad plug.
Sometimes on a V-8 it is REALLY hard to diagnose if there is a miss or just a vib.
It's free.......and don't take much time....and will eliminate bad plugs(or wires)
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/23/2023 5:57 PM  #6


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Motor mounts and trans mount.

 

1/23/2023 6:02 PM  #7


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Mounts are good,

I'll try the water; I have an infra-Red heat gun as well.

All the cylinder compression readings were 140-150 (Cylinders 4 & 8 were 150, all others were 140.

All the plugs looked decent, if anything a little on the Hot side, just a little whiter than I would have liked.

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2023 6:03 PM  #8


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Torque converter can have internal issues. I had a 70 convertible with FMX that did same thing


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/23/2023 6:13 PM  #9


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

We all like Photos, so here is what I'm working on. The frustrating thing about this, is this is the third one of these that I have had in the last 10 years and both of the others were short beds that I got talked out of, or into selling, and regretting it. I picked this one up because it is extremely clean with almost ZERO rust which is rare in our area. But now I am going to cut this on down to a short bed (why didn't I just keep the others)

For a brief moment ai thought about keeping it mainly stock, but the plan is convert to SWB, Crown vic front chassis, T-Bird independent rear.

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2023 6:15 PM  #10


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I have minimal Auto Trans knowledge, is there any way to check a torque converter once it's out vs just replacing it. 

     Thread Starter
 

1/23/2023 6:33 PM  #11


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

'One of the coolest Ford trucks' I ever saw was...
a long bed (about that year)....slammed really low...with a really nasty sounding FE engine.... nice wheels and fat tarz !
That dude was  RIGHTEOUS !
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/24/2023 6:43 AM  #12


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

kardad wrote:

I have minimal Auto Trans knowledge, is there any way to check a torque converter once it's out vs just replacing it. 

Not at home on a bench.  There are dynos that are used to test them, but even a trans shop probably doesn't have one unless they build their own converters.  You can check the snout and make sure its not abnormally worn, but that's about it. 

Wish I was closer.  I have a known good C4 and converter that came out of my '67 sitting on the floor of my shop.  I'd let you swap converters to see f that was the issue.  Shipping wold probably be about what you can get a stock replacement converter for or I'd offer. 

 

1/24/2023 10:33 AM  #13


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Nice truck.

PM sent.

 

1/24/2023 5:11 PM  #14


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Truck looks really nice for being 46 years-old!  A great find.
Try removing one spark plug wire at time and see if anything changes
Another thing to check is to ensure the spark plug wires are connected to the correct cylinder (wouldn’t be the first time this happened).
Regarding the starter, I’m not sure but should there be a block plate between the flex plate and the block like used on a manual shift? (I’m not familiar with the auto trans setup).
As far as I know, there are only two Ford starters used over the last ‘many years’, one with a 3/8” ring gear depth, on with a ¾”.  Check out the “Power Master” website, the have a “Ford Starter Tech Bulletin” on these depths, and a description on how they were used.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/24/2023 6:25 PM  #15


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Yea, there is a block plate between the block and flex plate, I agree on the firing order and mixed-up wire, that was one of the first things I checked. I know it's hard to describe and can be easily confused, but it doesn't feel like a miss fire or dead cylinder. It feels like a vibration in the rotating assembly.

The flex plate and starter need replaced, so I will pull it apart to that point and inspect everything and make sure all of the parts are correct dia, balance, and depth. Based on the cost of a stock replacement torque converter, I may change that as well. 

I have a 97 model 351 roller motor, standard bore in great condition that is my bucket list motor I want to build, but I would like to get this motor figured out and run it for a couple years while doing all the frame, chassis, and body work. 

I have done a manual 5-speed swap in everything I've built but would like to do a 4r70w (I want a nice comfortable cruiser). But with that I would like to do the drive line as well as the suspension and brakes in steps. I know it will take more time and probably cost more, but it's frustrating when you change everything from one end to the other and then you have an odd noise, vibration, issue, and you're scratching your head at where to start at which new upgrade bit you in the butt.

Plus, I like a challenge, so if this motor cost me a few hundred bucks and it's running smooth I will feel like I won.

     Thread Starter
 

1/24/2023 6:33 PM  #16


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I am thinking something clean and simple like these would make a nice cruiser and travel vehicle.


     Thread Starter
 

1/24/2023 6:39 PM  #17


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Speaking of..........starters.
It almost looks like the teeth woulda engaged better withOUT a block plate!
Since ya gotta have that maybe....a starter that throws INTO the flex plate further.(like mentioned above 3/4" vs 3/8".)
Just a WAG on my part.
Once you've eliminated a mis-firing cylinder.....maybe swap out the balancer for a new on or a known good one.
Insure the RIGHT flex plate was put on the last time the PO had it apart. (ck to see if a weight may have come off the flexplate)
S'all I got........
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/25/2023 8:56 AM  #18


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I would bet that someone has put a 50oz imbalance flexplate on a 28oz imbalance engine, or vice versa. The vibration would be just as you describe. 

 

1/25/2023 12:31 PM  #19


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Have you counted the teeth on flexplate?
Perhaps wrong balance as mentioned.

Last edited by Nos681 (1/25/2023 12:31 PM)

 

1/25/2023 3:01 PM  #20


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

Kevin197 wrote:

I would bet that someone has put a 50oz imbalance flexplate on a 28oz imbalance engine, or vice versa. The vibration would be just as you describe. 

I was just thinking the same thing.
With the mileage at 87K, or 187K, or even 287K is not a lot of miles/year for 46 years, unless the truck sat for several years.  Seems like a new/rebuilt engine/trans could have been installed somewhere along the way. 
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/26/2023 10:37 AM  #21


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I would also check to see if engine thrust bearing is about gone. Had a 302 with C6 in a Bronco that got real noisy while braking. Timing chain was cutting into timing cover

 

1/26/2023 11:31 AM  #22


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

If the flywheel was wrong, the imbalance would be jarring your teeth loose, not like the gentle imbalance you describe. Betting on torque converter.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/26/2023 11:33 AM  #23


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/26/2023 3:41 PM  #24


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

MS - I agree.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/26/2023 3:49 PM  #25


Re: Non-Mustang but Very FORD question

I don't have much to offer on the vibration.  I too would love to build a short bed.  I've been following a couple of different ford truck FB groups.  The lack of space to work on projects is my biggest hold up.

kardad wrote:

We all like Photos, so here is what I'm working on. The frustrating thing about this, is this is the third one of these that I have had in the last 10 years and both of the others were short beds that I got talked out of, or into selling, and regretting it. I picked this one up because it is extremely clean with almost ZERO rust which is rare in our area. But now I am going to cut this on down to a short bed (why didn't I just keep the others)

For a brief moment ai thought about keeping it mainly stock, but the plan is convert to SWB, Crown vic front chassis, T-Bird independent rear.

 

 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.