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3/01/2023 12:47 PM  #1


The Ford 9"

 

3/01/2023 1:50 PM  #2


Re: The Ford 9"

A good article for sure.
 


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/01/2023 3:33 PM  #3


Re: The Ford 9"

Interesting, but it misses some important points.  They start talking about the pinion bearings, but never really follow it through.  An old circle track car builder and machinist told me that the weak link in the 9" is the crush sleeve between the bearings.  Under load it oscillates and the bearings get cockeyed.  The case fractures where the 3rd pinion bearing is and then the gears fail.  A solid spacer with shims basically solves this issue.  Since I heard that I no longer use crush sleeves in ANY rear.  Going on 20 years and still no failures. 

Also, if you believe a 9" is as strong or stronger than a Dana 60 I've got a bridge for sale.  The surface area of gear contact is important, but gears don't typically fail because they have too little tooth contact area, until you start getting into non factory gear ratios (numerically above 4.10).  Typically the gears move out of alignment under load for one reason or another, bind, and fail.  Larger contact area may skirt this for longer, but its not an actual solution to the cause. 

The Dana 60 is still the go to rear in the off road world.  Nothing puts stress on a rear like off road use.  In fact, most of the broken 9" rears I've seen were in off road trucks.  A Dana 60 has properly spaced pinion bearings and uses shims instead of a crush sleeve from the factory.  They have a larger ring gear, and every one I've ever seen has 35 spline axles from the factory. 

In the car world a 9" seems like a big, strong rear, but in off road circles its considered dinky.  Most guys with full size trucks are running a D60 in the front and something even bigger in the rear (GM 14 bolt, Ford 10.5 Sterling, or Dana 80).  Of course the real hardcore guys just swap in Rockwells (used in 1-5 ton military trucks). 

Now, kind of academic for car guys, and for us the 9" is still a solid choice, BUT I wouldn't waste much money building a typical junkyard 9" for performance use.  The reputation of the 9" was created by relatively rare N case rears, many of which had Detroit Lockers.  If I wanted a 9" I'd build one from superior aftermarket parts.  But all things being equal I'd probably just put an 8.8 in it.  I've seen built 8.8s in cars that ran high 8s in the 1/4 without any issues, and I can build an 8.8 cheaper than a 9". 

 

3/02/2023 12:00 AM  #4


Re: The Ford 9"

Yep, I agree about the Dana 60. My brother had to replace an axle shaft after hitting a curb in his 69 Charger R/T, running from the poe leece. Damn those axles are huge.  Also agree on the solid shims. Which is what I have in my N case with Daytona support.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

3/02/2023 10:09 AM  #5


Re: The Ford 9"

Raymond B - Good article, thanks for sharing

TKO – The Dana 60 is a stronger rear end, no question about.  My 74 F-250 came with a Dane 60, not the 9” found in the F-100s.  The only issue with using a Dana 60 in a race car is its increased weight. 
 
The “crush collar” used for the 9” stock setup was a cost savings as it doesn’t require the additional time to properly set up the shims on the ‘solid’ spacer, and wasn’t really necessary for a daily driver.
 
When I drag racer back in the mid-seventies, many of my Chevy friends switched from the 12-bolt rear to the 9” because as when one gets to something beyond like a 4.86 rear, the 12-bolt’s pinion gear gets smaller and was susceptible to breakage; due to it not having the front pinion gear bearing support like the 9”.
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

3/02/2023 11:52 AM  #6


Re: The Ford 9"

I would be really, really impressed with a 9” that did not make noise.  Seems nobody I have found can supply one to me that doesn’t whine.  Except that chinese Speedway 9” I put in the 69.   It is quiet but I am getting tired of repairing leaks.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/02/2023 5:56 PM  #7


Re: The Ford 9"

As I remember, a long time ago we were running 5 :13's in a 12 inch Chevy that pulled the wheels off the ground 6 inches or so (The Rug Rat) 56 Chevy ran mid 9's in the 1/4 mile. Friend of mine has rebuilt his 9" a couple of times recently. Changed gears from 3:55 to 4:10's, put solid spacers  and dropped 2 springs and it still makes more noise than he likes. So you are not alone Steve. He used Yukon gears. Hope mine isn't noisy, I used Ford Racing gears.


Member since 2003, Mustang Steve has always been my homepage. 67 FastBack..Future engine is currently my coffee table
 

3/02/2023 8:02 PM  #8


Re: The Ford 9"

The last 3.50 gearset was one of those new highly machined Stealth gears that guaranteed to be silent. BS on that one… sounds just like my 3.70’s I have in a astrange aluminum case with 31 spline traction lock.

I bought a used set of original Ford gears I am thinking of having set up in the aluminum case. 

Sticking with 8” in my 65 convertible because of this noise issue.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/02/2023 8:12 PM  #9


Re: The Ford 9"

Had two different sets of after market 3.55 gears in the 8"...both noisy.  Drove Corky's 73 vert from FWB to Tomball in 2012.  It had an 8" set up by some guy who is supposed to be the grand poobah of ford rearends.  Noisy as hell.
Got PO'd married parts from two 8.8's to build a narrowed 8.8, 3.55, LS for the heap.  Set it all up my-own-self with new bearings, clutches, etc and used gears.  Quiet as a mouse blowing bubbles in a feather bed.  Total investment including all new disc brake parts...$750.

 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (3/02/2023 8:13 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/03/2023 6:06 AM  #10


Re: The Ford 9"

My 8" definitely makes noise.  Richmond gears setup by a local guy who was also supposed to be THE guy for Ford rears.  It was done before I knew how to set them up.  It only makes noise on deceleration.  Not sure what that is about.  Normally I've found when they do that the backlash is too much, but most of the gears today call for pretty minimal backlash (often as tight as 0.005"). 

At some point I'm thinking of dong an 8.8 swap.  Not because of the noise per se, but it would be nice to get away from that too. 

 

3/03/2023 10:56 AM  #11


Re: The Ford 9"

There are a lot of factory ford 8.8 gear sets.   Being factory ford gears makes a big difference in how they setup.

 

3/03/2023 1:07 PM  #12


Re: The Ford 9"

You got to always remember that little gear is always pushing the big one away. Side bearing preload is important that more is better than not enough. Factory (WAR) housing need more that a (DIF} and nodular need because its a bit weaker. The only aluminum one I ever did needed a lot more than I would have preferred. Third time was a charm.

The last and only 8.8 I did, didn't have enough from the get-go. The cup was moving on the driver side. You could not hear the radio or hold a conversation after the 1st 100K plus miles

Easy to setup with stackable shims and easy to understand using fords instructions not someone else's 

 

3/03/2023 5:17 PM  #13


Re: The Ford 9"

red351 wrote:

You got to always remember that little gear is always pushing the big one away. Side bearing preload is important that more is better than not enough. Factory (WAR) housing need more that a (DIF} and nodular need because its a bit weaker. The only aluminum one I ever did needed a lot more than I would have preferred. Third time was a charm.

The last and only 8.8 I did, didn't have enough from the get-go. The cup was moving on the driver side. You could not hear the radio or hold a conversation after the 1st 100K plus miles

Easy to setup with stackable shims and easy to understand using fords instructions not someone else's 

I only use the shims where for each side there are two thick shims and one has a lip that goes inside the other so the thin shims are fully supported.  That way you can drive them in.  I've used a case spreader, etc. over the years and found that this style side shim and a brass drift get the side bearings nice and tight. 
 

 

3/04/2023 1:53 PM  #14


Re: The Ford 9"

Well, I just got my rebuilt 9" carrier back, new ring gear (3.89s to 3.70s), and all new bearings (Richmond gear set and 'rebuild' kit).  The rebuilder stated both pinion bearings were bad, only 10K miles however, it has been vibrating for virtually the entire 10K miles.  I'm not sure why that happened, but I'll have it installed soon, and weather permitting, I'll take for a ride and post whether it is "noisy" or not. 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

3/04/2023 1:56 PM  #15


Re: The Ford 9"

I hope its not, but fear it is...

Seriously, best of luck.
 

 

Board footera


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