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  •  » Fired up the F 100

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    6/02/2024 8:03 AM  #1

    Jim Bowie
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    From: Mequon Wis
    Registered: 4/08/2013
    Posts: 259

    Fired up the F 100

    Well after finally getting correct dist. in my 1970 F 100 302, so breakin went really smooth, after 30 min run at 2000 to 1800 rpm brought it back down to idle, valve train noise started, I guess they don't make lifters like they used to. New melling  cam.and new comp cam lifters, Looks like I will be starting all over. Sure takes the Fun out this hobby.

     

    6/02/2024 8:53 AM  #2

    RTM
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    From: Cape Coral FL
    Registered: 5/22/2019
    Posts: 1,675

    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Sorry that happened to you. Sadly I see posts like this almost daily all over the internet.    I don’t think I’ll ever try to install a flat tappet cam.  Are you going to roller lifters this time around?

     

    6/02/2024 9:08 AM  #3

    boss347convertible
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    Registered: 4/22/2013
    Posts: 154

    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Sorry to see this. I just built a flat tappet engine, Model T, and I use a very high zinc break in oil and Redline assembly lube. After a run on the test stand, no scuffing or other issues that I could find. Of course, this can be attributed to low valve spring pressure and low compression (marginally, 6 to 1 with a high compression head).

    Are all 16 lifters damaged? What is the valve spring pressure and lift? Did the valve springs bind? Oil passages unobstructed?
    I would send a damaged lifter to Comp Cams for analysis.
    Good luck on the diagnosis.

     

     

    6/02/2024 9:59 AM  #4

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    First off I’m sorry for your misfortune with the F100 set up. I can only suspect bad metallurgy in the lifter as I’m sure you followed the correct methods of break in.
    My question would be what did Ford do with the millions of engines they put on the road? I kinda doubt they ran every engine for 20 min at 2000 rpm.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    6/02/2024 11:18 AM  #5

    RTM
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    I’ve read the bottom of  the lifters are not machined correctly which prevents them from rotating, to flat.  I suspect it’s all the above.

     

    6/02/2024 12:43 PM  #6

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
    Registered: 9/17/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    What oil did you use, did you check clearance in lifter bores?

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    6/02/2024 2:38 PM  #7

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,186

    Re: Fired up the F 100

    My policy on engine building has been to do only roller lifter engines. No problems that way.
    I had a 351c in a 70 convertible back in the esrly 90’s that ate a lifter after 1,000 miles.  Never want to have that happen again. 

    Of course, a Ford roller lifter in my 427 stroker busted the roller off of it and made a mess of things. Replaced with same Ford R lifters and so far, so good.

    All the 5.0 roller engines I built are still going strong.

    Definitely spend the money for a roller cam setup. I have some extra cams for 5.0 roller blocks.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    6/03/2024 6:04 AM  #8

    Jim Bowie
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    From: Mequon Wis
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    This was a bare bones stock rebuild. 302 two barrel carb, new pistons , cylinders were bored 30 over, heads got the hardened seats valve springs all were replaced, crank polished and reused used the fancy engine assembly  lube was used on everything , added the breakin additive, checked and rechecked every thing at least three times. Looks like the lifters where made of tin instead of steel, All I hear now is you have to go to roller lifters, I know the oils have all change and its harder to find,but its still out there, Got over 75,000 on my 66 pony with flat tappet motor, I can't believe with all the millions of old cars that someone hasn't stepped up to manufacture cam and flat tappet lifters to stand up in these old cars..Maybe I should get out of woodworking and go into cam and lifter production, I think there might be a good future in that. Sorry for the rant, helps take the sting out .

       •Thread Starter
     

    6/03/2024 7:54 AM  #9

    boss347convertible
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Sounds like you did everything correctly and the issue lies with the cam/lifter manufacturers. Like you, my experience with flat tappet engines has been good and I have several flat tappet vehicles.
    I hope the cam/lifter manufacturers can provide an explanation for this.

     

    6/03/2024 1:16 PM  #10

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,787

    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Hey Jim Bowie...check your PM's
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    6/03/2024 2:06 PM  #11

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    I’m sure most cam, lifter companies “go to suppliers “ are mainland China which uses questionable metallurgy.
    That lifter you pictured probably has old brake rotors and bed iron in the melting pot.
    It seems better quality control is more from Taiwan

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    6/03/2024 2:57 PM  #12

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Thats stinks!  Hopefully 2nd time around will be the charm!  I just sold flat tappet Cam and lifters that I had low miles on but were in my car for the last 20 years.  Those would of worked great for you.  

    Last edited by Steve69 (6/03/2024 2:58 PM)

     

    6/03/2024 5:29 PM  #13

    Ron68
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    From: Mukilteo, Washington
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Rudi wrote:

    I’m sure most cam, lifter companies “go to suppliers “ are mainland China which uses questionable metallurgy.
    That lifter you pictured probably has old brake rotors and bed iron in the melting pot.
    It seems better quality control is more from Taiwan

    I absolutely agree Rudi. I bought a slip yoke for my 4R70W to 1998 2wd  Explorer driveshaft conversion off of eBay. I had some issues a while after that where I needed to drop the driveshaft. In doing so, I found that the internal splines in the yoke had twisted, limiting my fore and aft movement on the driveshaft. Obviously made in China out of Chineseum with no heat treat. It hammered the bearings in the end of the driveshaft on the rear axle u-joint. Replaced the u-joint and got a Spicer yoke and no problems now.

    68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
     

    6/04/2024 7:46 AM  #14

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
    Registered: 4/04/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    I also agree, there is enough documented evidence over the last 25-30 years on many foreign products that were not built to the specifications that were specified.  From tires to sheetrock to wood flooring glue to piping, etc., etc.  Even from my limited experience, many of these companies purposely do not follow specifications if it can save them manufacturing costs. 

    Jim - I sent you a PM.

    Last edited by BobE (6/04/2024 8:16 AM)

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    6/04/2024 7:52 AM  #15

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
    Registered: 9/17/2013
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    With a flat tappet cam you've got to use oil with the right amount of ZDDP in it. It's also recommended that you use a single valve spring if you have two per valve, or a softer spring if using one stuff spring. Making sure your lifters turn easily in the bore is important also.

    Here's an interesting video on lifter hardness.
    https://youtu.be/DMFikj-TAqo?si=SLhz0H8ksJKPmRgo

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    6/24/2024 11:26 AM  #16

    Bolted to Floor
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    From: Houston, Texas
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    Re: Fired up the F 100

    Sorry to hear of your cam troubles Jim. Doing it once is costly enough without having to do it over.
     
    Did the lifters all rotate freely in the bore? I’ve read stories where the something would ping the rim/edges preventing the lifter from rotating.
     
    Rollers are more expensive and I chose that route over the fear of losing a cam on a new motor.

    John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     

     

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