Must have been a heck of an inspection!

Are there any competent techs even left in America?

Greg B wrote:

Are there any competent techs even left in America?

And people wonder why I work on all my own vehicles.  I guess ignorance truly is bliss,.  
 

Wow... just wow.
It's one thing to make a mistake, but they KNEW that was wrong!  Stuff like that makes me so mad!
Are they going to fix it?

I did have a very interesting talk with the claims adjuster this afternoon when he finally called me back.   In the meantime,  I gathered my info and made a plan so I could bring receipts!   I told him I now expect a new OE crossmember and mentioned the cost between new and used, and are they really going to be penny wise and pound foolish on such a labor intensive part?   Then I hit him with Jeep shows two different part numbers on the crossmember.   We did agree that I should give the shop a chance to make it right.

The shop did find the "paperwork" and sent it to me via email today.   It does read different than the tire shop, and has some measurements out of spec.   I replied and pointed that out.   I was then told that the wheel involved in the collision was in spec.  LoL.   So I replied to that At the expense of the other three wheels?   It takes four wheels in tune to track straight.   I then said, I am going to remind you that your tech had the entire front suspension apart,  only way possible to change the crossmember  in question.   

Point being this is going to be fun... Uphill battle of they are going to defend such poor workmanship.   

Dropping it off tomorrow in what is sure to be another long stay.    Meanwhile my wife has confiscated my new Jeep.    And I put my 04 back on the road.   And to make this Mustang related, That Jeep has been to a bash!

Yes, visual inspection is one of the main things I pointed out.   One can only play Pass the buck and blame someone else so much.    Anybody that has ever dealt with Jeep dealer parts system knows that the last eight digits of the serial number entered will only allow vehicle specific parts to be displayed
  So I really doubt the dealer sent the wrong part story.   That said, parts should be visually inspected side by side for proper fit.   Salvage sent defective part?   That means it got past your own man too. 

Sometimes it's just best to realize you have been outflanked by someone who took the time to verify, and just say we will make it right. 

And I agree newer techs are just getting thrown to the wolves.   There is no mentoring anymore.  You learn by doing and by being told what not to do, or what you did wrong.

6sally6 wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

I would use it as a teachable moment.  The issue was that whatever tech was putting it back together didn't think it through properly.  Clearly he saw that something was wrong, but his thought process thereafter was flawed.  What needs to be taught to the techs is something my neighbor said to me years ago, and its one of the most important things any mechanic can learn: if something is wrong after you worked on a vehicle immediately go back to whatever you did last.  The problem was that the tech immediately assumed that something else was wrong with the vehicle instead of immediately suspecting what he did last.  

Also worth noting that comparing the old parts to the new ones, even if the old ones are damaged, takes a minute, but the time it saves can often be hours, sometimes days.  

In the end, the shop owner wants happy customers, and definitely doesn't want vehicles coming back.  Many things I now do, and systems I've put in place in my own business are specifically to prevent call backs to fix things that I'm not going to get paid to fix.  With those systems in place my call back rate has dropped to zero.  

That last paragraph sums up the thinking of the shop that wanted to fix my daughter's Ford Focus rear brake shoes....
Instead of 'looking' and evaluating the condition of the rear brake system...they chose to replace both drums...both sets of shoes...everything!
Upon inspection, the drums were NOT grooved up the shoes still had 'some' pad left (hence no damage to the drums)
All that was needed was a new set of shoes.( Less than a 1/3 of what they wanted to charge.)
I suppose it's a good way to insure there won't be any come backs on the work.
It's also a great way to "make-work-and-make-more-money".
They DID insure there won't be any 'come-backs' on her part.(unless her Dad can't fix it any more!)
I feel...they sorta destroyed the "trust" we had in them that...they wouldn't take advantage of a single woman needing dependable auto repairs. (When I mentioned this to the owner it was full defense mode loud talk and arguments etc )
Some things just never change I suppose.
6s6

It sounds like on the scale of not wanting it coming back and throwing parts at it that shop did the later.  Its pretty easy to see if drums/shoes are bad.  My guess is they don't have a brake lathe, or don't have anyone that can operate one anymore, and it is hard to find shops that still turn drums and rotors.  I remember when all auto parts stores did it.

What I do is more like replacing stop valves when I remodel a bathroom or kitchen.  That valve hasn't been turned off in 40 years.  You turn it off and back on again  ad magically it leaks.  Is that my fault?  No, but I'm not going to argue that point with someone.  I also don't want to have to come back out just to replace a valve for free I didn't mess up in the first place.  So, I just note that those valves get replaced in my proposals and add the cost into the job (its really not much, especially on a job that size), and everyone ends up happy.  
 

addressed everything with the regional manager and tech with your vehicle

I spoke with the dealer and she had to order the knuckle and told us that it is about a week out and nobody in the area has that one in stock at the moment for us to get.

I have addressed everything in an email with Progressive and everyone is extremely confused on the alignment and how it could be that different from us to Plaza. However we will have to complete another on with the new knuckle when it arrives. Hoping it comes in earlier than she is thinking  to correct this. As for the crossmember Progressive wants me to send them the invoice from the vendor it was sent from along with several pictures once the vehicle is up on the alignment rack getting the knuckle installed.


Reply:

Yes, I knew yesterday the only knuckle available was in Atlanta Ga, I believe Southtown Dodge said. In a different region. I freely admit the alignment specs confuse me. Either way it was out when it left your shop and I believe the bent crossmember is the culprit for the RH side. Do you still have the old crossmember to compare it to? Visual comparison is everything in this line of work. A good lesson for a learning tech. Once you see the bends you cannot unsee them. I did not confirm whatever is grinding on the LH, nor how much damage occurred. I will send some pics.

Nov 14 at 9:36 PM
I do have one last thought. Can you just put this on a lift and take the pictures that Progressive/whoever is requiring? It will save some time having to then order that part and having to tear the vehicle down yet another time. Seems like such a waste of time, and energy and labor having to redo it all for the umpteenth time when a little effort can get the parts required there faster and avoid duplicating labor

This is going to be an epic!  Borderline stupid!  As you can see, at this point I am still being nice and not throwing out what I really know to give them an out.

Last edited by Greg B (11/14/2025 9:50 PM)

Greg B wrote:

The alignment was not out when it left our shop on the rear or the side of damage is how Progressives stand point is going to be. Insurance is not required to pay for parts or anything needed on an unrelated side of impact. I have been down that road with them I cannot even count how many times.

The old crossmember I am sure is gone by this point but will check for sure Monday however it was damaged also as to why we wrote for a replacement so not sure the old one will do much good to compare but I will check.

The plan yes it to put the vehicle back on the lift before to get everything needed in one shot, as most people we do not like doing things multiple times when it can be avoided. That is when all information will be presented to Progressive again in what is seen once back on the lift while we wait for the correct knuckle to arrive

Reply: my anger level is starting to rise.

Do they not understand removing the crossmember is what altered the camber on the rh side? My contention is and will be that the camber is altered because the crossmember is either too far to the right, or as seen, is bent and pulling the bottom of the RH wheel inward. You seem to understand that. At least I hope so. That said, I will explain it myself to whoever need be and back that up with pre accident alignment spec sheet, that I have. The alignment was perfect pre accident. At the end of the day, these Jeeps are pretty simple. They either align, or something is bent or out of place. I'm not asking Progressive for an entire new vehicle chassis. But I am expecting it to be made right with whatever parts are necessary. If Progressive doesn't want to do it, I will go after the at fault party until it's made right. Period. That "stance" is idiotic, on its best day. I would bet a dealer has official specs to where that crossmember location should be with location points and laser measurements. Now I'm going to find out.

I replaced the front axle assy on my 04 Overland because the old one was making metal. I got one from an 03 Overland that had only 32k on it. Once I got it installed, it wouldn't align properly. Seems it was tweaked a bit on the right side. I got an 3 degree offset ball joint, installed it and adjusted it,  and it aligned okay with no issues. 
 

Anybody that has ever dealt with an accident knows "the dance".  I'm just noting it. 

Right now, insurance is blaming repair shop, repair shop is blaming insurance.   All tripping over themselves to pretend to save a dollar.   When I think of all the people that HAVE been taken advantage of...

This right here is why I couldn't keep working in the industry.  I have a conscience. 

Meanwhile....my wife's foot slipped off the brake pedal of my new Jeep Grand Cherokee she's been driving in the driveway and she lunged forward and hit the rotisserie the Mustang convertible is perpetually on and knocked it backwards about three feet almost into the garage door.  I don't think it's damaged, and I didn't look on the other, right now I don't want to know.   I just can't win.

I realise why men are supposed to drive stick shifts!

GregB - Hoping better days are ahead for you, your wife and your cars. 
In the meantime "be carful out there"!

I get you can guess how this is going, and which route was chosen.  First, I am going to reference my email on NOV14!

Nov 14 at 9:36 PM
I do have one last thought. Can you just put this on a lift and take the pictures that Progressive/whoever is requiring? It will save some time having to then order that part and having to tear the vehicle down yet another time. Seems like such a waste of time, and energy and labor having to redo it all for the umpteenth time when a little effort can get the parts required there faster and avoid duplicating labor

Email I received last night:   

I have went back and forth with multiple reps from Progressive and we are replacing the crossmember with an OEM part. It is on order with the new hardware for it. I have included the current alignment specs after the knuckle was replaced.

My reply should have been not fit for print, but I actually offered free labor, as I'd like to get this completed before it belongs in a museum. 

Bordering on unbielievable!