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6/28/2019 10:22 PM  #1


HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Finally made it home from the Bash and tucked the car back in the garage. We had a great time on Saturday. A big thank you to our wonderful hosts, Bob and Cindy and we are looking forward to next year. There is some work to do though!!!

Drove the 1250 miles up there in the group without issue and got over 18 MPG out of a big block on a couple of tanks which really surprised me. The trip home was not as fortunate!!!

We had just left the area around the Henry Ford Museum in Detroit on Sunday getting on I94 and shifted into 5th gear around 50. The car started to shake, I thought a tire came apart. I pushed in the clutch and headed for the side of the road. On the way to the shoulder the engine died. Did a walk around on the side of the road, all tires are good. Under the hood, all looks as it should. Try to start the car, it does not want to turn over.

After a wrecker ride to the nearest hotel, I start looking for the cause.
No water in the oil.
No loss of coolant in radiator.
Pull valve covers, push rods look like they are supposed to, nothing appears bent or out of place.
Pull spark plugs, they appear ok to me. Nothing coming out of the cylinders either.

Used the ignition to spin the motor over. It goes about a turn and a half then stops. Hit the key again, and it spins even less and stops. Popped the distributor cap to look at rotor, it turns as the motor turns.

Loosened all belts, the water pump and all accessories spin freely. No improvement to length of time engine will spin over. I used a breaker bar on the harmonic balancer bolt, I could barely get it to move.

Took a picture through the hole in Scatter shield of clutch and TO bearing. It looks like it should.

I don’t have a oil pressure gauge, to know what the oil pressure was at that moment right before it died, it hadn’t made it high enough on my priority list to install. Wiping the dipstick on a clean paper towel a couple of times produced a few metal shavings.

What comes to mind is a spun bearing, broken rod, thrust bearing is shot allowing the flywheel bolts to contact block, or something worse. Not sure what would be worse. I guess on the bright side, there is no window in the block!!

It literally took all day Monday to secure a tow vehicle and trailer then left Tuesday morning headed for home stopping to see some sites along the way. Such as the Uranus Fudge Factory, General Store, and Side Show in Saint Roberts Missouri, Fantastic Cavern in Springfield Missouri and the Titanic Museum in Branson. Drove through Eureka Springs to visit the Crescent Hotel that was built in 1886.

I will try to pull the pan to see what it can tell me this weekend and get in idea for the plan forward. I don’t see how this will get resolved without pulling the motor. I have a couple of months of work around the house before I can start that!! Keep y’all posted.

Thanks for the help and advice offered on Sunday and Monday.

Last edited by Bolted to Floor (6/30/2019 11:46 AM)


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

6/29/2019 1:28 AM  #2


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Bolted...’67 coupe for sale cheap, bad motor? 😜.  Seriously, hope you find the problem. Definitely enjoyed your company and learning about big blocks.

 

6/29/2019 6:11 AM  #3


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Whats the big deal ???  you helped me with this ???  bet you forgot ???  Ha just kidding. We were going to come get you and install a new engine in Bobs driveway.  




 

 

6/29/2019 7:51 AM  #4


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Wow that sucks!  So what kind of truck and trailer did you rent?   What kind of charge per day?  Steve69

 

6/29/2019 8:03 AM  #5


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Bummer John! Hope the problem is not as bad as it sounds.

 

6/29/2019 10:14 AM  #6


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

I liked your diagnosis procedure. Right by the book. Sure sorry this happened to you.

I was mentioning all the great workmanship you had put into assembling your car to someone at the bash.   

My first engine in my 66 went 75 miles the first day I drove it, so at least you got some enjoyment out of the FE.

My suggestion would be to not bother pulling the pan in the car.  Just pull it and bolt to a stand (not floor) and methodically pull it apart.  Bummer, but its got to happen. 

Bad stuff causes the best learning experiences.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/29/2019 9:11 PM  #7


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

We all stil have a lot of questions about your car and welfare, but glad you were able to get home OK and still get some sight seeing in on the way home. If you think about it check flywheel, clutch, converter bolts/ nuts first. I had a Fairmont that the nuts backed out and locked up the engine. I don't remember if your car is auto or manual but the hardware on both is in the same general area. Metal in the oil is not very encouraging yet not unheard of on a newer engine.


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

6/30/2019 11:22 AM  #8


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Nos681 wrote:

Bolted...’67 coupe for sale cheap, bad motor? 😜. Seriously, hope you find the problem. Definitely enjoyed your company and learning about big blocks.


 Dan, it was great to meet you too.  

Don wrote:

Whats the big deal ???  you helped me with this ???  bet you forgot ???  Ha just kidding. We were going to come get you and install a new engine in Bobs driveway.  

 


 I hadn’t forgot, did you manage to get that new pigtail installed??? Bash 2020 is coming!!! I don’t know that Bob’s driveway was ready for swapping motors in my car. Thanks for the kind thoughts though.  

Steve69 wrote:

Wow that sucks!  So what kind of truck and trailer did you rent?   What kind of charge per day?  Steve69


 Rented a trailer from U-Haul and picked up a Tahoe. We were able to return them earlier then we planned, so some of the $1800 we put out should come back.  

Steve, The odometer is sitting at 6080 miles which is farther than your 75 but still nowhere near enough to be happy with the time and $$$$ invested. The pan will come off while it’s still in the car……I have an inquiring mind and a need to know!!! 

Doug, I have had some of those same thoughts.


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     Thread Starter
 

6/30/2019 11:45 AM  #9


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Well…..I got the pan off. I was really expecting to see a busted rod. Instead, the crank is broke!!! It has a new parting line on the throw between the 1st and 2nd mains closer to main #2, pistons 1 & 5. Both of those pistons have touched the crank in some manner and it looks like one of the rods may have touched the block. I couldn’t tell much looking at the throw for pistons 2 & 6.
 
Now, I’m content to let it sit for a bit while I catch up on things around the house.
 

 

 
[url=https://flic.kr/p/2gnSu9s]
 [/url]

 

 
I pulled that crank out of a 410 Mercury in a big 4 door land barge in Pick-A-Part around 1990, then moved it from house to house over the years with all of the other parts. In 2016, it got checked for cracks before it was turned under .010 for install. Now if I could understand why it broke like it did.
 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     Thread Starter
 

6/30/2019 1:07 PM  #10


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Ah crap! Sure was hoping for an easy fix John. Hang in there brother.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

6/30/2019 1:18 PM  #11


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Anything special about the crank?  Pretty sure I have a 390 crank on the shelf if you need one let me know. 

 

6/30/2019 2:32 PM  #12


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

fun reading,  counter weight cracks not very common.  I would still have your new rebuilt engine "Balanced"  something is amiss somewhere ? 
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/b13a/67ba15f3356b8f5fe298e812fdf2b578e5fc.pdf 

 

6/30/2019 3:42 PM  #13


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Holy crank! At least you found the problem. Whoda thunk the crank would break? Not me. At least it did not make a window in the block.

Last edited by RV6 (6/30/2019 3:43 PM)


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

6/30/2019 4:04 PM  #14


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Aww fer shucks Bolted. Your Stang showed first class workmanship in so many small details, it was easy to see how your skills would be throughout the car. Heartbreaking.
We saw the texted photos of you rented tow rigand heard of the locked up engine. That cracked crank was even more terminal than any of our speculation was.
I do hope all the right parts come to you and are worthy of your skills. See Ya on the road to Myrtle Beach

Tubo


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

6/30/2019 4:59 PM  #15


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

My bet is you lost a piston skirt and the skirt wedged in there between the crank counterweight and the block, forcing the counterweight to the side.  Especially knowing you had the crank magnafluxed previously.  Seems like the offset in the crack is a good indication.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/30/2019 5:01 PM  #16


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Broken cranks are actually not as uncommon as one might think.  I saw several 350 Vortec engines that hydrolocked with fuel from a leaking main injector and snapped the crank.  I've seen a couple DMAXes do it too.

In a garden variety cast crank it really doesn't take much.  A stress riser somewhere, usually at the intersection of a rod throw and a counterweight, turns into a crack and once it gets "hit" just right pope goes the weasel. 

 

6/30/2019 6:24 PM  #17


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Wow!  Sometimes its good just to step away and refresh then hit hard again. 

 

6/30/2019 7:03 PM  #18


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

I kinda go along with what MS sez.(imagine that!)
Was magnafluxed before turning and the engine has been running since '16. Seems like IF there was a crank-in-da-crank it  would showed up  3+ years ago when you first put it on the road!
Are those cast pistons?   Hyper??.......Even so, you don't race/abuse it so even those pistons should hold up great to nomal/spirited driving.
No issues with spark knocking/detonation was there.  What's the CR//........about 9.5-10:1?  Hi test fuel should work great with that.....
Anybody else have any theories
Such a nice car and IMPRESSIVE power too!
I would punish it for a few months and then pull the engine.
6sal6

Last edited by 6sally6 (6/30/2019 7:45 PM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

6/30/2019 7:24 PM  #19


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

If the crank has been turned and the engine work is fairly recent, I would closely examine the rod journal radius to make sure the machine shop put a proper radius on each journal. TKO is right about stress risers being where cracks start.

Good luck in finding the cause and I hope the rest of your engine survived!

 

6/30/2019 9:12 PM  #20


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

That is some impressive carnage!

After the bruising from the roundhouse kick to the groin has gone away you'll get it tackled.

 

 

7/01/2019 12:42 PM  #21


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

TKOPerformance wrote:

Anything special about the crank?  Pretty sure I have a 390 crank on the shelf if you need one let me know. 

Thanks for the offer Skip. I have a 390 crank in the garage. This was a 3.98 stroke from a 410 or 428, I will be looking for another one of those. Probable from Scat.
 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     Thread Starter
 

7/01/2019 12:46 PM  #22


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

351MooseStang wrote:

If the crank has been turned and the engine work is fairly recent, I would closely examine the rod journal radius to make sure the machine shop put a proper radius on each journal. TKO is right about stress risers being where cracks start.

Good luck in finding the cause and I hope the rest of your engine survived!

I've been told this elsewhere. I will reuse all the parts I can within reason. Sheryl is already worried about upgrades!! It will be a month or two before It come out of the car.
 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
     Thread Starter
 

7/01/2019 11:46 PM  #23


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Bolted to Floor wrote:

I've been told this elsewhere. I will reuse all the parts I can within reason. Sheryl is already worried about upgrades!! It will be a month or two before It come out of the car.
 

 
One other way a crank can be screwed up is if it is ground with poorly dressed stones. Well dressed stones put less heat into the crank while grinding. It will be interesting to see exactly where the fracture was on your crank.

It's sad to see a nicely built engine have something like this happen, especially far from home on what is supposed to be a pleasurable trip!

 

7/02/2019 4:35 AM  #24


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

My guess based on pictures alone is the rod end side clearances were too tight.  My secondary guess is there was a small clearance issue and a slight groove was cut into the crank by the rod.


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

7/28/2019 10:47 PM  #25


Re: HOME AT LAST & found the problem

Dang John, I just read this post.  I’m sorry that happened to you. Your car looked and sounded amazing last time I saw it.

 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.