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2/21/2021 8:12 PM  #1


Failures and what I've learned from them....

After 30+ K miles the engine in the Heap wiped the main bearing...catastrophically.  This occurred while I was doing some 2nd gear pulls from 2K to 5K and datalogging/tuning to get the WIde Open Throttle Air fuel ratio correct.
Best cause we can determine was due to me static balancing the rods/pistons but cheaping out and not having the rotating assembly dynamic balanced.

DON'T CHEAP OUT....IT'LL COST YOU A LOT MORE THAN WHAT YOU MIGHT SAVE.

BB1 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

2/21/2021 10:56 PM  #2


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

That is a total bummer Bob! Did it ruin the crank?

 

2/22/2021 7:18 AM  #3


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Idaho Barry wrote:

That is a total bummer Bob! Did it ruin the crank?

No.  Went .010/.010 and it's in the new short block.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     Thread Starter
 

2/22/2021 12:08 PM  #4


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Not trying to be a dope but I'm sure that you know the definition of "experience" is "the ability to immediately recognize a mistake the next time you make it".

That's certainly applied in spades to my Mustang efforts.  

Last edited by John Ha (2/22/2021 1:35 PM)


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

2/22/2021 1:33 PM  #5


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Show me the person who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who'd never learned anything. 

Good judgement comes from experience.  Experience comes from bad judgement. 

 

2/22/2021 2:53 PM  #6


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

TKOPerformance wrote:

Show me the person who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who'd never learned anything. 

Or maybe never DID anything...
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     Thread Starter
 

2/22/2021 2:58 PM  #7


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

I didn’t learn all this stuff by doing it right the first time!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

2/22/2021 3:57 PM  #8


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Bullet Bob wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Show me the person who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who'd never learned anything. 

Or maybe never DID anything...
 

Hey, I like that!
 

 

2/22/2021 6:26 PM  #9


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

21 years ago was the last time the 289 was all in pieces. The upgrade included Edelbrock Performer RPM heads, new pistons, cam etc. She ran great till she didn't.
I used Rhoads lifters and the stock 66 cast iron rocker arms. She purred like a sewing machine as Rhoads lifers do and I thought nothing about it. The engine sounded like a mechanical tappet cam. I liked the sound.
Fast forward to 2012 and for some reason I pulled a valve cover. To my horror the rockers were all catty-wompus, pointing everywhere but north/south. Some were leaned over and had gouged out the rocker studs and had even worn into the top of the spring keepers. The end of the valve stems were worn uneven too.
So I pulled the heads and sent them down to the head shop and $851 later I had new valves, springs, keepers, guides, guide plates, studs and adjustable stainless 1.6:1 rockers. 
I ditched to Rhoads and swapped them out with some Ford Racing hydraulic lifters which are still in the engine today. The roller rockers still make a nice sewing machine noise and I check the valve train at least once a year these days. 
So that is why I had 4 guide plates (survivors from my folly) to send Bullet Bob.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

2/22/2021 6:36 PM  #10


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Then there was the time I trashed my T5 in short order. I wanted to swap the 8 tooth speedo drive gear for a 6 tooth one. My bud came over and we dropped the tranny, pulled the rear housing, installed the gear, put the rear housing back on and stuffed the tranny back in the car. Time for the test drive.
Out the garage, bang gears down the street, hit Hwy 285 south and head to the turnaround point. All was well and I swapped seats with my bud so he could drive back. Success in the making.
Now it's dinner time and that's when it hit me. F*#@k, we forgot to fill the tranny with fluid. Ten simple miles without a full case of fluid trashed the bearings. 
Moral of the story: Don't drink beer and work on cars.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

2/22/2021 6:54 PM  #11


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

RV6 wrote:

Then there was the time I trashed my T5 in short order. I wanted to swap the 8 tooth speedo drive gear for a 6 tooth one. My bud came over and we dropped the tranny, pulled the rear housing, installed the gear, put the rear housing back on and stuffed the tranny back in the car. Time for the test drive.
Out the garage, bang gears down the street, hit Hwy 285 south and head to the turnaround point. All was well and I swapped seats with my bud so he could drive back. Success in the making.
Now it's dinner time and that's when it hit me. F*#@k, we forgot to fill the tranny with fluid. Ten simple miles without a full case of fluid trashed the bearings. 
Moral of the story: Don't drink beer and work on cars.

 Ahhhhhhhhhhh MAN!!!  What a crummy ending to a story......
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/22/2021 6:57 PM  #12


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

IF  you really like the 'busy' sound from an engine.........get a gear drive and pretend you have a blower! 
Might be safer than Rhoads lifters (not the first horror story I have "heard" about 'em)
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/22/2021 7:10 PM  #13


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Did something like that once. Installed a new rear-end in my 55 cornbinder, powered by Oldsmobile. New axles bearings the whole package. Filled the rear, Then we drove up to Bellingham WA from Portland and back. Next morning the truck wouldn't move. Turns out the rear ends in the old cornbinders don't lube the axle Bearings and they were welded together.  


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

2/22/2021 7:11 PM  #14


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

6sally6 wrote:

RV6 wrote:

Then there was the time I trashed my T5 in short order. I wanted to swap the 8 tooth speedo drive gear for a 6 tooth one. My bud came over and we dropped the tranny, pulled the rear housing, installed the gear, put the rear housing back on and stuffed the tranny back in the car. Time for the test drive.
Out the garage, bang gears down the street, hit Hwy 285 south and head to the turnaround point. All was well and I swapped seats with my bud so he could drive back. Success in the making.
Now it's dinner time and that's when it hit me. F*#@k, we forgot to fill the tranny with fluid. Ten simple miles without a full case of fluid trashed the bearings. 
Moral of the story: Don't drink beer and work on cars.

 Ahhhhhhhhhhh MAN!!!  What a crummy ending to a story......
6sal6

Crummy ending? Drinking beer was the end of the story.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

2/22/2021 8:04 PM  #15


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

I put a cap on a connecting rod backwards once. It was a 350 Chevy I got talked into bolting together for my cousin.  We caught it fairly quick once it was running, but it needed the crank turned and a new rod.  I learned to make sure those numbers were on the same side after that, and to stamp them if they weren't already marked. 

 

2/22/2021 8:49 PM  #16


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

We were on the road from LA to 'Vegas back in '78.  Going on our annual trip to visit Ed Winfield...only model T's and A's with Winfield equipment allowed.  Running north on I-15 in the Speedster at about 65.  The engine had a little vibration that started that morning  but was only real noticeable close to three thousand... we're talking a Model "B" with a Riley Four Port head. 
Anyway, it didn't seem to be getting any worse so why worry, right?   About 20 miles south of Vegas, completely without warning, it chucked the No. 3 rod cap.  Needless to say it went downhill from there.  I'm glad I had seat belts in that car 'cause Jean would have gone over the side.  Kong jumped on the CB and says, "hey Evans, you're leaving parts in the road back here."  No kidding!.
The only things that weren't ruined were the head and carbs (thank God, those were pretty rare even back then), side plate over the valve box, water pump, and water inlet, and flywheel.  Block, crank rods, pistons, pan, cam, lifters were all junk.
Those old engines had provisions for cotter pins on the rod bolts.  Seems I must have missed one on the No. 3 rod. 

You just can't check this stuff too much. 
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (2/22/2021 8:51 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     Thread Starter
 

2/22/2021 10:30 PM  #17


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

My Dad and I needed to replace a leaking radiator hose...(upper I think).
Anywho.....got 'er all replaced and tightened down......filled up the rad with water/antifreeze. Slammed the hood down and fired-that- ...B-itch-up!!
All  WAS good for about 15 seconds...and then all sorts of framm'in and clunk'in started coming from under the hood! Shut it off and raised the hood.
A screwdriver was buried in the radiator!!
Hose didn't leak butt....needed a new radiator!! 
I always check for loose tools before closing hood. 
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/22/2021 10:39 PM  #18


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

6sally6 wrote:

IF  you really like the 'busy' sound from an engine.........get a gear drive and pretend you have a blower! 
Might be safer than Rhoads lifters (not the first horror story I have "heard" about 'em)
6sal6

 
My largest failure is patience.

I DIDN’T DO IT FOR THE SOUND

 

2/22/2021 10:57 PM  #19


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Bullet Bob wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Show me the person who's never made a mistake and I'll show you someone who'd never learned anything. 

Or maybe never DID anything...
 

 
That was one of my dad's lines.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

2/23/2021 1:02 AM  #20


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

josh-kebob wrote:

Back in the day, I owned a 1983 Cutlass Supreme. I knew it had a tired engine so I acquired a Jasper long block and went to work. Got it dropped in, topped off the fluids, etc and it fired right up and ran great......but not for long.
In fact, I think it lasted a couple weeks until it spun a bearing, or two, or all.  Dropped the pan and discovered the two bolts holding the oil pick-up tube weren't doing their job....can you say, less than finger tight. All my fault...

Now, I double check the torque on every bolt during an engine rebuild.  Taught me an expensive lesson, one I prefer not to repeat...

This right here is why I rebuild engines with a buddy. Someone to check me and double check...


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

2/23/2021 1:31 AM  #21


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Well that's a giant bummer but seems more like rotten chance than anything else. I mean how many engines, buildings, whatever you can think of ... are put together either under the influence of beer or the umbrella of ignorance and still manage to keep it together? Balancing, ... huh? If you did it at all you were already ahead of the pack.


(Pinto!)
 

2/23/2021 9:16 AM  #22


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

If it wasn't for 1or 2or 3 and or whatever beers . I would hardly get enough ambition to go out to the garage in the afternoon anymore.
Just yesterday I knew I found my missing 5/8 socket while holding a Keystone and looking at a round up punch in the hood about where the air cleaner is....

 

2/23/2021 9:36 AM  #23


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

red351 wrote:

.......and looking at a round up punch in the hood about where the air cleaner is....

Gaaaaaaaaaaaa!! Me too!! Don't cha just hate that?!
6s6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/23/2021 11:20 AM  #24


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

Bullet Bob wrote:

We were on the road from LA to 'Vegas back in '78.  Going on our annual trip to visit Ed Winfield...only model T's and A's with Winfield equipment allowed.  Running north on I-15 in the Speedster at about 65.  The engine had a little vibration that started that morning  but was only real noticeable close to three thousand... we're talking a Model "B" with a Riley Four Port head. 
Anyway, it didn't seem to be getting any worse so why worry, right?   About 20 miles south of Vegas, completely without warning, it chucked the No. 3 rod cap.  Needless to say it went downhill from there.  I'm glad I had seat belts in that car 'cause Jean would have gone over the side.  Kong jumped on the CB and says, "hey Evans, you're leaving parts in the road back here."  No kidding!.
The only things that weren't ruined were the head and carbs (thank God, those were pretty rare even back then), side plate over the valve box, water pump, and water inlet, and flywheel.  Block, crank rods, pistons, pan, cam, lifters were all junk.
Those old engines had provisions for cotter pins on the rod bolts.  Seems I must have missed one on the No. 3 rod. 

You just can't check this stuff too much. 
 

Excellent story, We are driving the Model T's from Orange County to Death Valley and back. I am building two T engines and transmissions, one specifically for touring as I have replaced the number one and two rods in the engine presently in the car and number three and four are making some noise. Not surprising considering the engine still has the original cast pistons with quarter inch rings. I know at least one guy that is using nylocks on the rod bolts and has racked up several thousand miles on them with no issues. I may do the same as I have a 3 dip pan and installing cotter pins on the fourth rod bolts can be challenging. Thanks for sharing your story.

Last edited by boss347convertible (2/23/2021 11:22 AM)

 

2/23/2021 11:42 AM  #25


Re: Failures and what I've learned from them....

I wouldn't use Nylocks on rod bolts.  Long term the oil will degrade the nylon and something will likely go horribly, horribly wrong.  Nylocks are used all the time in aviation, but inside an engine they use all metal locknuts and/or safety wire.  I safety wire my oil pump and pickup bolts even on street engines.  Its not that hard (you can even drill ARP hardware with a Cobalt (not Kobalt) bit and some patience on a drill press.  I look at it as cheap insurance.  The odds a properly torqued bolt comes loose is tiny, but if it does the results are catastrophic.  I'd stick with the cotter pins in the T engines or use safety wire.

 

Board footera


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