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3/22/2021 1:32 AM  #1


Poor handling when the road is wet

I know we all try and avoid taking our classic cars out in the rain, but sometimes we can't avoid it. When I am driving along a wet road, I find my understeer is worse and grip/traction just goes out the window. Even with good wet weather tires and the tires are only a couple of years old.
Now I've owned one other classic car before my Mustang and it was a true daily driver, but I can't remember it being as bad as my Mustang in the rain.
How do you guys go? What's your experience with getting caught in some rain and driving your Mustang? Could I have tire pressures too high? Can't be the wheel alignment, because this was recently done.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
 

3/22/2021 5:20 AM  #2


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

In my experience generally tires are solely responsible for wet weather performance.  I had a set on my WRX (keep in mind this in an AWD car) that made it handle terribly in the rain.  I swapped to a set with a lot of siping and it handled like the pavement was dry.  Siping seems to be the key to good wet weather performance. 

 

3/22/2021 5:38 AM  #3


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

I threw a set of these Dunlops on the thing sometime in 2019 -

https://www.goodyear.com/en-US/tires/dunlop-sp-sport-maxx-tires

I thought these were supposed to be good in the rain? I didn't go cheap on the tires.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

3/22/2021 6:20 AM  #4


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Does it have Granada spindles on it?  They will certainly make the issues they normally induce concerning steering alot worse in wet conditions. After that, tires can cause issues, especially if they are old tires that have gotten hard.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/22/2021 7:32 AM  #5


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

That tire appears to be designed primarily for dry summer high performance driving.
The center rib is pretty much solid with some sculpting in it.  That makes steering response quicker when its hot and dry.  The drawback is that near freezing and rain/snow will allow it to hydroplane at interstate speeds.

I’ve had tires like that on a SUV, traction was terrible.
As TKO mentioned, for wet/snow and cold weather around 40F get tires that have more siping.
At lower temperatures an all season tire will provide better traction.

What tire pressure are you running?

I like the “reassuring statement” on Tire Rack.

 

3/22/2021 2:08 PM  #6


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Thanks guys.
I have standard spindles on the car and the tires are only about 2 years old. I tend to run about 36-38 psi in the tires.
Maybe I just bought the wrong set of tires? I prefer to have a wet weather tire.
What tires are considered to be a good wet weather tire? What sort of tread pattern do I need to go for?


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

3/22/2021 2:17 PM  #7


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Years ago I had a set of Continentals on my 86 GT. They stuck to the dry pavement really good. When the road got damp or wet they were like an ice cube on a hot griddle. I got rid of them as soon as I could.


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/22/2021 3:50 PM  #8


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Toploader wrote:

I tend to run about 36-38 psi in the tires

^^^^^^^^^^^
                                                  THIS could/is an issue!
15" tire.....32 lbs. is about the max that should be run (a little less is even better!)  IMHO
When I get caught in rain I REALLY putter along like a little-old-man... Aggressive starting/stopping is a great way to "swap-ends."

Try lowering tire pressure to 28-30 psi
6sal6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/22/2021 8:02 PM  #9


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Got to agree with sal.  Mustangs originally ran about 27-28 psi on bias tires. I run 32 on mine.  Try thirty next time just as a comparison.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/22/2021 8:36 PM  #10


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

MS wrote:

Got to agree with sal. Mustangs originally ran about 27-28 psi on bias tires. I run 32 on mine. Try thirty next time just as a comparison.

GOOD TO KNOW.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

3/23/2021 12:53 AM  #11


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Wow... 30 - 32 Psi for a 15" tire seems low to me, but ok... I will give that a try.
I had just been going with what late model cars use for tire pressure, because I thought the pressures quoted in the 60s were for cross-ply tires.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

3/23/2021 5:42 AM  #12


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Air pressure is based on a couple things, but mostly weight.  If max inflated pressure is 50psi, that's at max load, which let's say is 1,200lbs.  Do the math and that shows that each 1/2psi supports 24lbs.  If the car weighs 3,000lbs, or 750lbs/wheel, divide 750 by 24 and you get: 31.25psi.  This is how I set initial tire pressure on all my vehicles, and then I may experiment from there.  I find this offers the best tire wear and handling.

 

3/23/2021 11:08 AM  #13


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Just to add..............
I have "neglected" checking my tire pressure on several occasions on the 'old-hot-rod' and have found the pressure to be in the loooow twentys!! They looked pretty good butt pressure was low. I guess........because the car is so light, the 225-60-15 hold the car up just fine with a minimum amount of air!?!
36-38 psi is A LOT on these light weight cars (unless you are trying to wear the 'middles' out)
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/23/2021 12:10 PM  #14


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Its a good idea to check tire pressure frequently.  The idea that we can tell how much air is in the tire by how it looks is a leftover from the bias ply days.  If the tire is flat, obviously its flat, but I could pump 50psi into a tire, 35psi, or 20psi and if it was a blind test you'd almost always be wrong.  Modern sidewalls are so stiff, and radials are supposed to have a slight bulge at the bottom.  Treadwear will ultimately indicate whether or not the pressure is right, low, or high.  A rolling test with a chalk line across the tread can also be used.

Remember, even a flat tire has 14.7psi in it...

 

3/25/2021 4:35 PM  #15


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Yeah, but that 14.7 will only register in a vacuum.


1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
 

3/25/2021 10:09 PM  #16


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

My coupe seams well footed in the rain as I live in Oregon and that sometimes is our sunshine. 
I have always used the caulk test and then adjusted one way or the other to get the feel just right. The PSI on the side wall is for max load rating.  I run 225/ 60/15 TAs on 7" rims on my  65 coupe and they are at 26. A good example is with my truck tires, C 10 stepside  they say they are 17-5 x 36 x 15s and to get them to be 36" tall it takes the full max 30 PSI, they also max load at 2800 each. truck only weighs 4K   I run 25 in the fronts and 18 in the rear because its a short box.  Anymore and there foot print is 6" wide. I still dont get much more that 10" on the road. You cant drive it in the rain or you will swap ends everywhere.


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

3/25/2021 10:13 PM  #17


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

First thing I would do is drop that presure, its way to high, get down to 28 -30 max and try driving it. My coupe seams well footed in the rain as I live in Oregon and that sometimes is our sunshine. 
I have always used the caulk test and then adjusted one way or the other to get the feel just right. The PSI on the side wall is for max load rating.  I run 225/ 60/15 TAs on 7" rims on my  65 coupe and they are at 26. A good example is with my truck tires, C 10 stepside  they say they are 17-5 x 36 x 15s and to get them to be 36" tall it takes the full max 30 PSI, they also max load at 2800 each. truck only weighs 4K   I run 25 in the fronts and 18 in the rear because its a short box.  Anymore and there foot print is 6" wide. I still dont get much more that 10" on the road. You cant drive it in the rain or you will swap ends everywhere.


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

3/26/2021 1:40 PM  #18


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Sipes in large block truck tires will make a difference in traction.
It will pull up your grass too as you drive across.
Less mowing required.😜

Definitely noticeable on snow, ice, and rain....and even mud.

Last edited by Nos681 (3/26/2021 1:42 PM)

 

3/26/2021 2:43 PM  #19


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

Mud has no traction, so typically the best mud tires are ones that clean out the tread efficiently to allow you to try and claw your way down to something that has traction.  The guys who run mud bogs use tires that almost look like they have paddles on them.  Its more churning through the mud than biting into anything.  Super Swamper Boggers are one of the most popular for this, and I've seen guys carve on them to further improve paddling.

Snow is a strange thing, because snow traction is best when the tire is packed with snow.  Snow on snow traction is the best you're going to get.  I find mud tires, expectedly, do terribly in snow.  They claw through the snow which just makes you dig holes and get stuck.  A less aggressive tread that fills with snow and stays packed allows you to stay on top of the snow and move along.

One thing is the same about both conditions: once moving don't stop.  Wheel speed can to a point make up for a lack of traction, but its got to be controlled chaos or you end up wrecked. A $500 beater will teach you all kinds of things about traction, wheel speed, etc. if you have a decent place to wheel. 

 

3/26/2021 9:28 PM  #20


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

I dropped the tires back to 30psi, so I will wait for the next time it rains and see how I go with some wet weather driving.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

5/20/2021 5:18 AM  #21


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

An update on the tires... I tried running them at 30psi and it was horrible. The car would wander... Handling and driving was horrible, so I am currently back up to 38psi and the car is SO much better. I haven't had an opportunity to drive it in the rain recently, but maybe the Dunlops are not the best in the wet. In the dry they grip really well.
For those of you who run tire pressure at 30psi and 32psi, I don't know how you do it.


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

5/20/2021 10:12 AM  #22


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

30-32 psi with  235/60/14 BFG (Radial  T/A)

28-30 psi with 235/40/18 Pirelli ( P Zero Nero A/S)

I had an alignment done prior to travel to Texas.
I’m running about +4.5 caster and 0 camber

Drove in rain at interstate speeds without any traction problems.

Might want to check your alignment.

 

5/20/2021 1:22 PM  #23


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

I've noticed over the years that a car with alignment that is out of whack will seem to handle better with more air pressure in the tires.  I think Nos681 might be on to something there. 

 

5/20/2021 1:47 PM  #24


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

What were your alignment numbers?

Getting an alignment done does not always mean that it was done correctly for modern tires and modern understanding of car handling geometry.

 

5/20/2021 2:02 PM  #25


Re: Poor handling when the road is wet

The alignment was done within the last 6 months by a reputable shop, where the Technician regularly works on classic Mustangs. One side was way out, but they fixed it. The alignment was done for radial tires and the numbers were near perfect when compared to the non-Shelby drop numbers quoted.
I just think 28-32psi is too low. I have 38psi in the tires now, but could drop back to 36psi. I doubt that I would go less than 36psi...


1964-1/2 D Code Coupe - 289 V8, 4 Speed Toploader, 3.00 ratio rear, Autolite 4100 Carb, 15" tires, Pertronix ignition
     Thread Starter
 

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