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3/27/2021 9:01 AM  #1


347 engine , need help

Engine is in the car going through it’s second oil .. the engine is shuddering at part throttle , and today made a phssst sound every time it was shuddering . Idle isn’t very smooth..

Summit 600 carb with 1/4” edelbrock gasket.
Scorpion rollers and 6.272 Manley pushrods .

Timing is at 12degrees at idle . No vaccum advance
93 octane fuel

Do I have a misfire? Do I have a valve not opening and closing?

What all should I look for?

I heard bullet bob may have had this issue ...

Last edited by Gaba (3/27/2021 9:02 AM)


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
 

3/27/2021 10:26 AM  #2


Re: 347 engine , need help

I have heard of problems with the summit carb if the summit gasket is not used. But who am I to talk? I use a 1/2" wood spacer with normal carb gaskets on mine and have no problems (I think).
Is the shudder at part throttle while driving or sitting in the driveway?
Have you done any adjustments/tuning of the carb?
PCV system?
Power brakes?
Tell us about your ignition system.
Have you done a compression check?
 


Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
 

3/27/2021 10:32 AM  #3


Re: 347 engine , need help

Phsst sound...sounds like maybe a stuck valve.  Have you pulled a compression check?  Noise I had was a Wooooooo sound but it never effected the running of the engine...EFI will cover a lot of sickness.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/27/2021 10:38 AM  #4


Re: 347 engine , need help

Ignition system is MSD 6AL. MSD Distributor

9.5:1 compression

Shuddering at part throttle

Summit gasket is all open , I have a dual plane manifold . So I got a similar material edelbrock gasket with divided plenums , which is a 1/4” instead of 1/2. I do have a wooden 1/2” spacer too if I need to replace the gasket I have to a 1/2” one. But at 1/2” the solid throttle link doesn’t work with my lokar AOD TV bracket

Idle isn’t the smoothest.

Brake booster yes

PCV yes (and checked )

No major asjustments yet , just leveled the front bowl float.

If I pass the part throttle point I can tell there might be a miss , but the engine just powers through it . At part throttle it shudders , and makes that phssst noice and engine smoothens for a second

Ideling it is shaky a bit .. I know this full roller motor should be smoother with my cam choice.

Last edited by Gaba (3/27/2021 10:38 AM)


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/27/2021 10:39 AM  #5


Re: 347 engine , need help

Bullet Bob wrote:

Phsst sound...sounds like maybe a stuck valve.  Have you pulled a compression check?  Noise I had was a Wooooooo sound but it never effected the running of the engine...EFI will cover a lot of sickness.

 
No efi. Planning carb for now.



And yeah it seems like may be a roller is off a valve stem..

I’ll start pulling things off to see .. anything else I should check before dismantling ?


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/27/2021 11:25 AM  #6


Re: 347 engine , need help

I will check , but I built them with tags and built to length.. I will check on the distributor again though.


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/27/2021 12:06 PM  #7


Re: 347 engine , need help

I agree with JBK.....ck the simple/cheap stuff first.
firing order......
all the spark plugs are in tight?!...
at idle spray around the base of carb real good with carb cleaner/Brakleen(I love that stuff!).
Manifold runners too....
IF...you have a vac leak the engine will speed up some.
Pull the valve covers off and take a look/and a LISTEN while its idling.
Have some shop rags handy to wipe up oil. No need to let it idle any longer than necessary to minimize oil spills.
6s6
PS..............I would replace that open gasket with the 4 holer ASAP. Carb works better with gasket underneath it.

Last edited by 6sally6 (3/27/2021 12:08 PM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/27/2021 12:20 PM  #8


Re: 347 engine , need help

I didn’t use the open gasket

I did use a two hole edelbrock.. is 4 hole even different in “performance” on a dual plane?


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/27/2021 12:25 PM  #9


Re: 347 engine , need help

That's what........."They say"!
I have always used a 4 holer. Look at the bottom of the carb.......does it have a hole/orfice in the center between the 4 holes?!
I lik'em covered.
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/28/2021 6:23 AM  #10


Re: 347 engine , need help

The 4 hole gasket/spacer just acts to increase runner length if the intake doesn't have an open plenum.  If it does I doubt it does anything.  Honestly, at 1/4" think you're not going to notice anything IMO.  From what I've seen on dynos you have to get into 1" or taller for a spacer to really make a difference. 

Now, for sealing purposes a 4 hole gasket may work better, especially with some carb designs. 

My question would be, does the shuddering start immediately at throttle tip in?  Because if the answer is yes I would suspect a vacuum leak once the throttle blades open, which could very well be the carb gasket.

Intake gaskets are another possibility.  Fords love to create an internal vacuum leak that is hard to diagnose because its leaking from the valley to the port. 

 

3/28/2021 8:31 AM  #11


Re: 347 engine , need help

Have you isolated all vacuum lines to see if still does it?

Brake booster and distributor is all you have?

 

3/28/2021 5:02 PM  #12


Re: 347 engine , need help

Nos681 wrote:

Have you isolated all vacuum lines to see if still does it?

Brake booster and distributor & PCV valve is all you have?

6s6
PS Get's you a bump!
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/28/2021 9:00 PM  #13


Re: 347 engine , need help

Yeah that’s what I am thinking TKO.

Thinking back, it may have been a backfire from the carb I was hearing . That pssst noise.

A vaccum Leak , and yes right at throttle tip in, could be causing a massive lean , that explains why I could jam the throttle and the engine would want to clear a bit but still shudder a bit while driving .

The 1/4” is not a spacer is a gasket. And this gasket is supposed to act both like a spacer and a gasket. I bet this thing is leaky.

Will be confirming

Also, will check calve train after for the hell of it


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/28/2021 9:02 PM  #14


Re: 347 engine , need help

Nos 681

Booster checked

PCV valve checked

No other vaccum connections


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

3/28/2021 10:04 PM  #15


Re: 347 engine , need help

Did you get your coolant leak repaired on intake manifold?

Might be where your vacuum leak is too.

Pull the spark plugs and see if any signs of coolant or oil on plugs.

Last edited by Nos681 (3/28/2021 10:06 PM)

 

3/28/2021 10:12 PM  #16


Re: 347 engine , need help

While spark plugs will be removed

Yes coolant leak was the heater hose that had folded into itself on the lip, and the big radiator hose being loose at Tstat neck. That’s fixed now fully

But REBUKE THAT SPIRIT FROM HERE OF COOLANT OR OIL IN PISTON
HOLES!!! Lol ;D


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

4/06/2021 8:57 PM  #17


Re: 347 engine , need help

Found issues ::

Vaccum leak on carb base
2 cylinders not firing
Valve train pushrods 0.050” too short .

Fixed all that, and now the engine is smooth.. but .. I have follow up questions .. starting a new thread for it


If it aint broke, I have'nt tried to "Fix" it yet!
     Thread Starter
 

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