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4/22/2021 2:01 PM  #1


67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

I finished up with the T-5 conversion and 350 rear end about a month ago. I haven't used it much, T-5 shifts fine.
At around 60 mph I start getting a vibration from the back of the car faster you go the worse it gets. Last year I
pulled the 289 out and put a 351w in ,the car ran great no vibrations at all, even in triple digit mph. The T-5 sits a
1/2" lower than the top loader. I put the front tires on a set of tire ramps and jacked up the rear end to level the
car  to get the same as if it would be sitting on the ground on 4 wheels. I measured the end of the trans, the flat
area next to the seal for the output to the drive shaft I got 7 degrees down. I measured the flat on the yoke of the
rear end and got 3 degrees down. I measured the driveshaft (installed) and got 6 degrees down. All measurements
were taken from the same side of the car (drivers side). I can't really raise the tranny without doing a lot of cutting or hacking. Would I want to raise or lower the rear end ? To get the proper pinion angle and how many degrees?
With pinion shims between the leaf springs and rear axle. I changed the tranny T-5,350 Posi 9'"rear end, new
rear shocks the old shocks were shot and a brand new driveshaft. I know MS and some of you other gents 
have gone thru this and can steer me, in the right direction.   mustang stu

 

4/22/2021 2:44 PM  #2


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

Simplifying:

Make the rear seal of the tranny parallel to the front seal on the rear end.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/22/2021 2:51 PM  #3


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

Hmmmmm….I had that same vibration right before I put new springs. Maybe it fixed mine with the new springs maybe it sagged the rear down and had the pinion angle messed up.
Don't they make some adjustable engine and transmission mounts?


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

4/22/2021 5:02 PM  #4


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

I put 3 degree shims in my rear springs, but whether front or back I can't recall.  This old brain is not what it used to be.

In case you do not read the info under the bottom line:  I have a 351w w/ wide ratio T5.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

4/22/2021 6:23 PM  #5


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

My advice was based on what is considered “correct angle theory” not on any success I have had over twenty years chasing my vibration with varying pinion angles. ☹️


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/22/2021 7:50 PM  #6


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

You didn't mention the drive shaft........is it new?.....Have it balanced to be sure.....mine had a bend in it & out of balance.
Rims are good?/( haven't been "curbed" or warped?) Any chance a belt may have broken in a tire?
The shim usually goes in the front part of the rear springs (sorta tilting the rear end UP)

I'm not an expert.......mine gives me a nice vibrating massage every time I drive because so much stuff is hard mounted and metal-touching-metal........Hey its a hot rod!!!!!!
6sal6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

4/22/2021 8:27 PM  #7


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

7* Down on the transmission sounds excessive for a T5 swap. It should be around 3.5* Down. Use the wedge shaped shims to bring the pinion up to an angle of about 2*-3* Up. The pinion usually needs to be slightly less Up than the transmission is Down to account for "pinion climb" during acceleration.

 

4/23/2021 9:24 AM  #8


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

To 6sally6, It's a brand new drive shaft, it does have a weight welded on, new joints, new yoke. After the
351w install to the 4 spd top loader over 800 miles ,no vibrations of any kind at speeds over 100 mph,
once I hit that, the eyes stayed on the road ,not speedometer (I surprised myself how fast it got up there).
Anyways tires are about 3 years and balanced. The vibration came  with the T-5 conversion , new center section, and shocks. Getting the info from Texas, & MS & you, I will try to adjust the axle up.
mustang stu

     Thread Starter
 

4/24/2021 5:59 AM  #9


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

I agree that 7 degrees down seems like a lot. I am at 4.5 down.   Another 6 degrees down on the driveshaft, after the engine is already 7 degrees down also seems like a lot. My driveshaft is 2.5 down. What motor mounts do you have in the car?   You might want to think about getting some Ron Morris adjustable mounts to lower the height of the engine to reduce that downward angles a bit.

But as to your specific question, this is a good article that should be helpful.

https://www.diyford.com/ford-restomod-rear-suspension-guide/

 

4/24/2021 6:11 PM  #10


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

Chaplin wrote:

I agree that 7 degrees down seems like a lot. I am at 4.5 down. Another 6 degrees down on the driveshaft, after the engine is already 7 degrees down also seems like a lot. My driveshaft is 2.5 down. What motor mounts do you have in the car? You might want to think about getting some Ron Morris adjustable mounts to lower the height of the engine to reduce that downward angles a bit.

But as to your specific question, this is a good article that should be helpful.

https://www.diyford.com/ford-restomod-rear-suspension-guide/

I wish I could find somebody close by to check my pinion angle and make adjustments as needed.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

4/25/2021 8:15 AM  #11


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

You can easily check your angles yourself. TREMEC makes a good app you can download to your phone or you can just use an angle finder.  The TREMEC app works pretty well, but I find that the buttons on the side of your phone can throw things off a bit, but that may depend on which phone you have and where the buttons are.

To find your angles, take a reading off something that is parallel with the crankshaft (I measured from the 6 o'clock position on the harmonic balancer), then take a measurement off the driveshaft, and then take a measurement off a flat spot on the diff that is parallel with the pinion.  Once you get all of those angles, then you can figure out what, if anything, you need to adjust.

 

4/26/2021 9:33 PM  #12


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

I got a new angle finder (digital), and 1/2x1/2 square bar for measuring = trans tail shaft=4.50-4.80 
degrees down ,driveshaft = 2.40 degrees down, rear end yoke = .8 degree down . The other angle 
finder had a sticking needle .What would be a good degree shim to start to bring the rear end up and
allow for the rear end going up under acceleration? Texas said 2 to 3 degrees, would that be good with these new measurements ? It's a lotta fun laying on your back taking these measurements, the70+ eyes
don't see as good as they use to, the digital gauge really helped. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP
AND REPLYS  mustang stu

     Thread Starter
 

4/27/2021 7:29 AM  #13


Re: 67 351w T-5 Conversion, pinion alignment help, which way to go?

Those measurements make more sense than your 1st set and are pretty close to mine.  I have not had my car at highway speeds yet, so I don't know if I have any vibrations with my set up. Will test that on my next test drive. 

I am by no means an expert on this but have been looking at this as I have wondering if I am going to have to go through the same exercise.

My understanding is that ideally you don't want the working angle of either u-joint to be greater than 3 degrees and you want to have the working angles of both u-joints to be within 1 degree of each other.

Do you have any ability to shim up the trans a little bit to reduce the tail shaft angle at all?   

For sake of discussion, let's say your tail shaft is 4.5 down.

If your driveshaft is 2.4 down, I would say that is ok because there is apx. 2 degree difference in those angles, which is less than the 3 degree recommended max working angle.

The next angle to look at is the pinion. At .8 down on the pinion (and I assume you mean the front of the pinion is facing down towards the pavement), with a 2.4 down on the driveshaft, the total working on the u-joint is 3.2, which is over the magic number of 3.

So, if you put a 2 degree shim under the rear axle, it would change your pinion angle to +1.2 degrees up and then change the working angle of the rear u-joint to +1.2 up (2.4 down on the driveshaft plus the 1.2 up on the pinion).

Now keep in mind that ideally the goal is to have the working angles of both u-joints with in 1 degree of each other. With a 2 degree shim under the pinion and other measurements as described above, that should get you there because each u-joint will have a working angle under 3 degrees and the difference in the working angles is within 1 degree of each other, i.e., +/- 2 on the front joint and 1.2 on the rear joint.

The other thing to keep in mind is that when you put a 2 degree shim under the axle it will probably also reduce your driveshaft angle a little bit since the pinion will now be higher than it was before, so the above calculations may be off a bit, but I think a 2 degree shim would be a good place to start.

Appreciate comments from others as well.

Last edited by Chaplin (4/27/2021 7:31 AM)

 

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