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  •  » 1968 FB alignment issues

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    10/07/2013 12:41 PM  #1

    Brent
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    Registered: 7/16/2013
    Posts: 39

    1968 FB alignment issues

    I have had this car 7 years now and it drove just fine when I got it.  Over the years its been down most of the time but its ready to hit the road again with the last thing it needed was an alignment.  I have Granada disks and the Shelby drop done as that came with the car.  What I have done since I thought it drove fine was added adjustable strut rods from Rosehill performance and Roller perches.  On both my first attempt and todays attempt I am noticing the car is wandering down the road and jumping when I hit a bump.  I don't even enjoy driving it.

    The alignment guy went from negative camber to positive and backed off the caster because I told him it was harder to steer now.  It did not work.

    Here is the first attempt that was not good.
    Left
    Camber -0.3
    Caster 1.9
    Toe 0.23 radians. I asked for 1/16" to 1/8” toe in

    Right
    Camber -0.4
    Caster 2.1
    Toe 0.23 radians. I asked for 1/16" to 1/8” toe in
     
    Here is todays attempt.

    Left Side
    Camber 0.6
    Caster 0.7
    Toe 0.24 radians. I asked for 1/16" to 1/8” toe in

    Right Side
    Camber 0.8
    Caster 1.0
    Toe 0.24 radians. I asked for 1/16" to 1/8” toe in
     

    Both settings gave me the feeling of wandering and I still have bump steer. I could hear the tires squeal when i drove over the black sealant lines in the road. The sealant was probably flexible enough that when I hit that, the tires moved before I came back on solid pavement. I do remember with the first setting I could drive small circles in a parking lot and hear tire squealing and saw rubber left on the road.
     
    I know I have to much positive camber now, I can visually see it. So I don't have much confidence if I met things halfway with another attempt it would be any better. The basic differences between the 2 alignments that did not work was I went from negative camber to positive and backed off the caster by a degree.
     
    I have no idea what the settings were when I bought the car 7 years ago but none of these issues existed. And like I said the only things I have done were Adjustable strut rods and roller perches.
     

    From Bloomington Illinois
     

    10/07/2013 2:57 PM  #2

    Brent
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    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    I think I will go back again this week and request as much caster as I can get and go back to -.5 camber.  If that is still a problem then look into a bump steer kit.  Could be when I got the car it had lots of caster and I just forgot how hard it was to steer but it did not dart around like it does now.

    From Bloomington Illinois
       •Thread Starter
     

    10/07/2013 3:16 PM  #3

    jerseyjoe
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    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 789

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Brent wrote:

    I think I will go back again this week and request as much caster as I can get and go back to -.5 camber.  If that is still a problem then look into a bump steer kit.  Could be when I got the car it had lots of caster and I just forgot how hard it was to steer but it did not dart around like it does now.

    Brent, what does your front suspention consist of...stock ??...jj

    "Never put a question mark where God put a period "  Richard Petty
     

    10/07/2013 6:06 PM  #4

    GPatrick
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

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    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,123

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    I am by no means an alignment expert but it seems like your caster is way too low.  But there are other things to consider - for example, how old are your tires and how wide are they?  Are they different than when you first got the car?  If they are the same ones you had on it, then it is probably time to swap them out for safety and the newer and more compliant tires may be much better.  Also, what are you running for shocks?  Same thing - they deteriorate with time so if you don't know how old they are it may be time to change them out as well.  Many here refer to the "Daze" alignment specs and this is the link.  Scroll down to the bottom and compare your values to the suggested values with the Shelby drop for your model year.  This is where you can see that your caster is out of range and no positive camber is recommended.  Also check the condition of your anti-roll bar (sway bar) bushings and links, and your rear spring bushings.  What upsets the fronts upsets the rears as well and your rear can push the front around.  http://dazed.home.bresnan.net/drop

     

    10/07/2013 7:28 PM  #5

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,373

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    You need 3 degrees caster or more, with both sides even.  The negative 0.5 degrees camber would make it drive alot better, but I prefer zero.  I drove my 66 2,000 miles to TN and back with positive 0.5" camber and it drove fine.
    !/8" toe-in is preferred.

    I am betting your problem is in the old tires you are driving on, if you have not replaced them recently.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    10/07/2013 7:42 PM  #6

    Physics Doc
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    Posts: 22

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Are you SURE that the toe-in was .24 RADIANS and not degrees.  .24 radians is  13.75 degrees and for a 25" tall tire, that's about 3" of toe!!!! (Angle (in radians) x radius of tire).  Double check the toe measurement.  If it's .24 degrees, that's about 1/19"  If it really is .24 radians, your toe is the problem. But I'd be surprised you could even drive it without leaving skid marks.

    1 radian = 57.3 degrees

    1/8" toe-in would be about 0.010 radians or 1/2 degree.

    Last edited by Physics Doc (10/07/2013 7:46 PM)

     

    10/07/2013 9:04 PM  #7

    MS
    Forum Originator

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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,373

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Physics Doc wrote:

    Are you SURE that the toe-in was .24 RADIANS and not degrees.  .24 radians is  13.75 degrees and for a 25" tall tire, that's about 3" of toe!!!! (Angle (in radians) x radius of tire).  Double check the toe measurement.  If it's .24 degrees, that's about 1/19"  If it really is .24 radians, your toe is the problem. But I'd be surprised you could even drive it without leaving skid marks.

    1 radian = 57.3 degrees

    1/8" toe-in would be about 0.010 radians or 1/2 degree.

     
    I had an alignment "tech" tell me my front end toe- in was 5 degrees on my 2007 GT. After I looked at his print out, it was actually 0.05 degrees, only 100 times less than he stated.  I am betting most of those guys do not know a degree from an inch, much less a radian.

    Thanks for the physics lesson, doc!

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    10/08/2013 7:53 AM  #8

    Brent
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    Posts: 39

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Tires are brand new.

    I have another shop taking a look at it today.  This guy is actually going to drive it first before he does the alignment which is what a true alignment person should do.

    From Bloomington Illinois
       •Thread Starter
     

    10/08/2013 8:48 AM  #9

    Brent
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    Posts: 39

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Just got a call from the new alignment shop I took it to and the previous place was totally negligent. The problem is a loose pitman arm and lower ball joints on both sides. Once those get replaced I will get the correct specs done. I have no idea how things got so loose from when it seemed ok to now with very little driving in between.  Could be that driving it from place to place with it messed up caused some stress?

    Last edited by Brent (10/08/2013 9:05 AM)

    From Bloomington Illinois
       •Thread Starter
     

    10/08/2013 9:59 AM  #10

    boomyal
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    From: Vancouver, Washington
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,295

    Re: 1968 FB alignment issues

    Brent wrote:

       ...... Could be that driving it from place to place with it messed up caused some stress?

    I'd rather doubt that.  Those things just wear out and need replacing.  Were the lower ball joints riveted in, or bolted in?

    As for shops, it wasn't until I hooked up with a real old time alignment scientist that I came to understand the complexity of suspensions and how worthless the majority of alignment shops are.
     

     

     

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