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5/28/2021 5:13 PM  #1


FiTech revisited

I have spent the last couple of days trying to figure out why my car will not start.

To make a long story short.  I found that the power wire to the Command Center carries no voltage.  The schematic shows the wire going to a 6-pin connector. and a cable from thence to the throttle body.  The wire from the command center has no breaks or rubbed spots, so it looks like the problem is in the cable to the TB or the connector itself.

Intermittently, with the ignition on, the fuel pump will start running and the pressure run up to 60 lb.  That lasts for anywhere from a second to 4-5.  It has been enough to try to start things up. From the key, the engine starts right up.  When I use the remote switch at the relay, the engine starts right up.  So I feel like there is no issue with the wiring from the key or the power from the battery.  I have also verified the ground is good.

The 6-pin connector has been impossible to disconnect.  To date, I have not been able to unhook it.  I'll keep trying.

Last edited by lowercasesteve (5/28/2021 5:16 PM)


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

5/28/2021 7:55 PM  #2


Re: FiTech revisited

WD-40?

Find that little catch on the side of the connector that must be activated to unplug it? Some you have to push a little lever. Some you pry on with a small screwdriver.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/29/2021 6:42 AM  #3


Re: FiTech revisited

I'm wondering if it got hot and melted the plastic together.  I've seen that happen when wires ended up carrying a higher load than intended.  This can also cause a short in the connector, which may be the cause of all your issues. 

 

5/29/2021 1:29 PM  #4


Re: FiTech revisited

The FiTech instruction manual indicates that the unit is fused with a 25 amp fuse, although not specially stated, seems this must be an in-line fuse from the battery to the 6-pin connector.  Also, this line should always be providing power with the key on or off.  
Fuses are not normally intermittent but the connection to it could be, something to check.
Please keep your progress posted, I was planning to install this EFI system.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

5/29/2021 1:52 PM  #5


Re: FiTech revisited

If I follow you , You mean the wire that powers the high pressure pump from the E.C.U. If memory is correct it is yellow ? I have read were sometimes the plug connector failed.You should have 12 v to pump on key on then off . Makes sure the pulse width on hand held is set at like 99 this will give no modulation to pump. I think the best thing to do is use the ECU to control a relay that will reduce the load on the ECU relay. Hope this helps.


If its worth doing do it right !
 

5/29/2021 3:38 PM  #6


Re: FiTech revisited

KM wrote:

If I follow you , You mean the wire that powers the high pressure pump from the E.C.U. If memory is correct it is yellow ? I have read were sometimes the plug connector failed.  You should have 12 v to pump on key on then off . Makes sure the pulse width on hand held is set at like 99 this will give no modulation to pump. I think the best thing to do is use the ECU to control a relay that will reduce the load on the ECU relay. Hope this helps.

The high pressure power supply is orange and has no abrasions or anything else that might indicate a problem.

Thanks for the info.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
     Thread Starter
 

5/29/2021 3:50 PM  #7


Re: FiTech revisited

BobE wrote:

The FiTech instruction manual indicates that the unit is fused with a 25 amp fuse, although not specially stated, seems this must be an in-line fuse from the battery to the 6-pin connector.  Also, this line should always be providing power with the key on or off.  
Fuses are not normally intermittent but the connection to it could be, something to check.
Please keep your progress posted, I was planning to install this EFI system.

There are two fuses in the system and they both are working.  I unplugged them and replugged them to make sure they were seated.

If I run a wire directly between the battery and the high pressure terminal on the Command Center, the car will start right up whether I use the key or  my remote  starter button.  That is why I am leaning toward the problem being the connector.


 


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
     Thread Starter
 

5/30/2021 9:21 AM  #8


Re: FiTech revisited

lowercasesteve wrote:

BobE wrote:

The FiTech instruction manual indicates that the unit is fused with a 25 amp fuse, although not specially stated, seems this must be an in-line fuse from the battery to the 6-pin connector.  Also, this line should always be providing power with the key on or off.  
Fuses are not normally intermittent but the connection to it could be, something to check.
Please keep your progress posted, I was planning to install this EFI system.

There are two fuses in the system and they both are working.  I unplugged them and replugged them to make sure they were seated.

If I run a wire directly between the battery and the high pressure terminal on the Command Center, the car will start right up whether I use the key or  my remote  starter button.  That is why I am leaning toward the problem being the connector.


 

Understood, the problem could be in the ECU.  The wires to the 6-pin connector appear to be sealed to the connector, preventing checking the voltage on both sides of the connector.  You could use a small pin to puncture through the wire insulation and verify voltage exists, or not, on both sides of the 6-pin connector.  This would tell you if the connector or ECU is the problem. 
Note: I don't like to puncture wiring like this, you could use a very small dab of silicon (RTV) to re-seal the area.
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

5/30/2021 5:57 PM  #9


Re: FiTech revisited

I received this this morning from FiTech (I'm surprised someone was there!)
-
If there is a fault in the connector we do have to get that apart.  I hate to say it but either something melted in the connection or we got some corrosion in the harness and it has locked the pins.  At this point i would look at cutting the harness and putting new connections on it.  It sounds like an intermittent connection since t does run the pump periodically so I think the ECU is ok it is more the connection issue.   Even if you want at this point jump across the fuel pump wire and see if that fixes it.  Let us know.
-

It looks like TKO may be correct.  FiTech thinks there might be a melt down.

Anyway, I have tried to get the connector apart with no success.  The connector seems to be a snap on one, but I have tried to cut away the apparent-snap lock with no success.  It still will not come apart.   I am not going to go any farther in this.  I don't want to screw things up.  I have Basic Tremor (my hands shake a lot) and am color blind, so I can't see the wire colors correctly and I can't mess with those skinny wires in the cramped spaces under the hood. (They look like 18 or 20 gauge) 

I have a mechanic at American Mustang who installed this one and has done over a dozen.  I am now on his waiting list - End of August.  I can wait til then as summers here are the reverse of winter in the east.  It is too hot here in the summer time to mess around in my garage.

 


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
     Thread Starter
 

5/31/2021 7:02 AM  #10


Re: FiTech revisited

Replacing the connector may solve the current issue, but my concern would be the underlying issue that caused it to fail.  It definitely seems like something is carrying too much load.  A relay could solve the issue if you can determine which wire(s) had the issue. 

 

5/31/2021 12:37 PM  #11


Re: FiTech revisited

Thanks, TKO.

It seems as if FiTech knows about this problem, based upon their response.  even a relay might not solve the problem if another circuit would short out due to heat.  the connector in question is just below the starter solenoid.  That makes me wonder if I should continue with it or just go back to a carb.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
     Thread Starter
 

5/31/2021 2:21 PM  #12


Re: FiTech revisited

lowercasesteve wrote:

That makes me wonder if I should continue with it or just go back to a carb.

Popular question.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

5/31/2021 2:59 PM  #13


Re: FiTech revisited

Fixed that for ya Steve,

lowercasesteve wrote:

Thanks, TKO.

  That makes me wonder if I should continue with it or just go back to a dripping pot

 


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

5/31/2021 7:40 PM  #14


Re: FiTech revisited

Now, now, Rudi.  You're starting to sound like me.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

6/01/2021 4:41 AM  #15


Re: FiTech revisited

This is why I like factory style EFI, but that ship has sailed.  Honestly, if its just the connector you need to figure out if it failed from exhaust heat or due to a bad design.  Either can be fixed, and I think with less effort than swapping the car back to a carb.  If exhaust heat is a possible concern wrap the wiring in heat reflective material.  If its circuit loading there's always a way to fix that its just a bit more involved on the design side. 

 

6/01/2021 6:35 AM  #16


Re: FiTech revisited

Sounds like the location for the connector might be too close to exhaust heat and quality of plastic for connector might use some improvement.

When connectors get replaced, I would suggest using a sleeve type heat shield similar to what is used on spark plug wires.

Find a size that can slip over the connectors and leave extra length on each side.

Then place a couple of small zip ties on each side to lock in place over connectors.

If you want to tackle this yourself, as an electrician, I have used a light colored electrical tape and a fine Sharpie to make matching labels on matching wires at connectors.

You can use letters, numbers, symbols or words to make it easy to understand for you and anyone following your work.

It has worked for me when wire colors are questionable, poor lighting, yellow lights, or colors are different on each side of connectors. 

Hope this helps.

 

6/01/2021 7:10 AM  #17


Re: FiTech revisited

My 2 cents, if the outside of the connector isn't degraded by heat, my thought is that the internal connection of the pin to socket is the problem.  If there is poor contact between the the mating surfaces, damage could occur that could cause a intermittent issue over time.  As you can't get the connector apart, as a temporary fix, slice the 'orange' wire across the connector.  If this works, a permanent repair can be accomplished later. 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

6/01/2021 9:22 AM  #18


Re: FiTech revisited

BobE wrote:

My 2 cents, if the outside of the connector isn't degraded by heat, my thought is that the internal connection of the pin to socket is the problem.  If there is poor contact between the the mating surfaces, damage could occur that could cause a intermittent issue over time.  As you can't get the connector apart, as a temporary fix, slice the 'orange' wire across the connector.  If this works, a permanent repair can be accomplished later. 

IF the issue was not related to external heat that's true, but if the problem was the wire/pin/socket got hot the outside of the connector can look fine.  I've had numerous connectors fuse over the years from an overloaded wire.  It frustrates you to no end because it just won't come apart, and there's no obvious reason why.  Eventually you break it open and its like the two halves have been ultrasonically welded together.  I have a hopped up RC car that will do this to the battery connector if I'm not militant about limiting run time and stopping the instant the battery starts to die.  I went from a 40 turn motor to a 12 turn.  Still brushed, but its like night and day power wise.  I did what I had to do to beat one of my buddies in an unlimited class, but it proves that any racing is expensive its just a matter of scale. 

 

6/02/2021 4:00 AM  #19


Re: FiTech revisited

Most Delphi connectors have a amp rating of twenty to twenty-five amps.My thoughts reduce the load on the connectors and ECU by adding a relay.


If its worth doing do it right !
 

Board footera


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