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11/30/2021 10:04 PM  #1


More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Today I made the fuel line for the carb-fuel pump run. Only took three tries!!! 
Anyone else running a Gen II Saginaw p/s pump?   Looks like it will be a real pain getting it connected to a hose. Who in the heck designed it with fitting vertically on the front of the pump???  See that little red cap?

https://i.ibb.co/Kr9Ps6R/7-F80-D6-D3-F15-F-4653-A2-B4-62-B12-E223465.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/SfxyBmX/5-D42-ED1-A-6-FDB-4292-85-DB-E5-F2-BF69-AE6-A.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/3hdYcFj/98-F4950-A-2-BC3-422-A-896-B-AB170-B4-EC0-AB.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/gwZQbsc/EB809021-50-DA-4348-9-D48-71174363033-E.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/P1JhZ30/AAAA92-FA-E1-B0-43-E9-969-D-8-E3-AE9544314.jpg


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/01/2021 9:41 AM  #2


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

I will say Steve, that is a work of art!


If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
 

12/01/2021 1:29 PM  #3


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

MS.  That needs to be on a pedistal in your living room!


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

12/01/2021 2:37 PM  #4


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

I have one on the Galaxie.  The pump is "universal" and by changing the reservoir you can change the positioning.  On the majority of the JM cars the pump goes on the passengers side and is clocked 90º which makes the hose location ideal.  On my Galaxie I am using the same type you are and I made a small hard line to clear the pump and then attached the PS line to my hard line.

 

12/01/2021 7:32 PM  #5


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Ok, that makes more sense if the pump was mounted on the passenger side on original installations.
How about some pics, Daze?   That hard line is my plan, but it will be a tight fit.  What size fitting is on the pump? It is not SAE inverted flare.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/01/2021 9:21 PM  #6


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

P/s appears to be similar to this one.
Power steering is near end.
Shows a hard line adapter for this setup.

I recall seeing a banjo fitting on magazine articles in past.  It wrapped around front of pump .


https://www.eddiemotorsports.com/v/vspfiles/EMS_Tech_Support_docs/MS107-63_SB_Ford_Pulley_Kit_Installation_instructions.pdf

Last edited by Nos681 (12/01/2021 9:22 PM)

 

12/01/2021 9:40 PM  #7


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

https://i.ibb.co/fNDp7cx/F3-B0-A6-B9-7972-4889-9361-AA91719-F6-A5-E.png


Does your pump look like this KRC pump, just with a different style reservoir?

This setup allows slightly more room to pulley.

 

12/02/2021 8:50 AM  #8


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

That is a very compact PS pump!


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/02/2021 11:30 AM  #9


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

That pump design is awesome for manufacturing costs with that one bore doing so much! I copied that layout for a pump I designed for a hydorstatic application. The manufacturing guys loved me.

 

12/02/2021 3:17 PM  #10


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

MS wrote:

Ok, that makes more sense if the pump was mounted on the passenger side on original installations.
How about some pics, Daze? That hard line is my plan, but it will be a tight fit. What size fitting is on the pump? It is not SAE inverted flare.

There is a universal repair kit you can get at your local auto parts store with a hard line and the correct fitting.  Sorry I can't find the part number.  (they let me wonder in the back and look at what they had when I needed to replace what I started with) When I originally did mine it came up and then angled back back towards the rear of the car.  Problem I had was the line would move and loosen up the fitting.  As a temporary fix I went strait up and have my PS line attached (custom line that goes to my hydroboost).  It is not pretty but it does the job for now.  My long term goal is to use an AN-6 fitting and then use an-6 sleeves so I can make a custom line that better suits the application.

The fitting on the left is what I started with, came on a used pump I had.  The fitting in the middle is the -6 adapter that I will be using eventually and the steel tube adaptors are to the right.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/513/OJcDaQ.jpg
[img]​https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3404/8sUMCK.jpg[/img]https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/3404/8sUMCK.jpg


This is the temporary set up not the best looking but gets the job done until I have time to do it correctly.
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6831/hHmu3e.jpg

 

 

12/02/2021 3:25 PM  #11


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

I was doing more looking trying to find the hard line part number I originally used and I found a banjo fitting that lots of aftermarket sellers now offer.(the one NOS681 mentioned)  Looks like a much better way to go other than the cost being way to high IMHO.
https://www.ecklers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/e8278bb62b6191f0a2c63cf38a3ced70/e/p/33-257429-1.jpg

 

12/02/2021 5:39 PM  #12


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Detroit Speed & Engineering has the hard line.  Used one on my cobra, a little pricy but works & looks great.

https://www.detroitspeed.com/products/steering/power_steering_fittings/parts/091702DS

 


www.quadmat.com  Butyl Sound Deadener & Insulation
 

12/02/2021 5:59 PM  #13


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

I dunno when I look at all this hydraulic pumps, Borgeson gizmo, hoses, fittings tubing etc., my thinking is along the lines on how BB1 looks at dripping pots.
EPAS is so much more logical than 50 year old technology.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/02/2021 6:27 PM  #14


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Rudi wrote:

I dunno when I look at all this hydraulic pumps, Borgeson gizmo, hoses, fittings tubing etc., my thinking is along the lines on how BB1 looks at dripping pots.
EPAS is so much more logical than 50 year old technology.

What do you use for a steering box when using EPAS, Rudi?  A fifty year old worn out steering box, or a rack & pinion?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/02/2021 6:32 PM  #15


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

My plan now is to use 6-an stainless nut I just ordered and some steel hard line. The hose would need to be supported like a brake line in order to keep from loosening, or breaking the tube. My planned route looks just like that expensive one. I do like that banjo bolt fitting.  The big problem on mine is the alternator fan is really close. I  nit sure I can get the two bends thst close together with my bender.

Thanks for the ideas!  I like to do things once and be done whenever possible.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/02/2021 6:35 PM  #16


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Thanks to Barry, I have this setup on my car.
Granted, it’s a Ford pump.
I’m sure you could find appropriate fittings for your application.
I didn’t use the fitting in red.

FYI, I would suggest copper washers for banjo fitting.
Aluminum washers I got required more torque to seal….more than should be required.


https://i.ibb.co/GQtfbKm/32-ADDFFE-75-FD-4754-914-B-F4-C947-DE680-A.jpg


https://i.ibb.co/DpKJwdw/FF293010-CFB3-4-D07-895-C-0-A463605-CE09.png

 

12/02/2021 6:53 PM  #17


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

There is no room for hose, so mine has to be hard line. I do like the banjo fitting. Definitely use copper.  It is just the two bends have to be real close together. I’ll either figure it out or spend the $89 to make it easy. Buying fittings can get expensive real fast, too.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/02/2021 7:50 PM  #18


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

MS wrote:

Thanks for the ideas! I like to do things once and be done whenever possible.

I hear you there.  In my case I thought I did it correctly the first time but didn't realize that hose movement would be an issue.  The second time was because I had to special order the parts I pictured and it was "driving season"  a big thing in MT.  I wish I could have done it correctly from the beginning 😁😁😁

Not all of them are as expensive as others this one is only $60 but goes across the front so it may or may not work for you.
https://www.eddiemotorsports.com/product-p/ms100-03s.htm
https://cdn3.volusion.com/ocahb.tgrdw/v/vspfiles/photos/MS100-03S-3T.jpg?v-cache=1560253787

Then there is this one from holley $70
https://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/198-203/10002/-1
https://images.holley.com/holley_mid_mount_-13.jpg


This one is $35
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/gos-131263
https://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/xlarge/gos-131263_xl.jpg

 

12/02/2021 8:53 PM  #19


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

MS wrote:

Rudi wrote:

I dunno when I look at all this hydraulic pumps, Borgeson gizmo, hoses, fittings tubing etc., my thinking is along the lines on how BB1 looks at dripping pots.
EPAS is so much more logical than 50 year old technology.

What do you use for a steering box when using EPAS, Rudi?  A fifty year old worn out steering box, or a rack & pinion?

 
I had been tempted to go with a r&p but have not been convinced that it is any better or simpler than the original manual steering linkage.
Just about every r&p set up that I have read testimonials about has had limitations and issues that I’d rather not deal with.
When I installed the EPAS I had a brand new Lares steering box in the car, also  I am presently in the process of having Dan Chock rebuild an original Ford SKB steering box that might go into the car at some point.
I’m not saying that the EPAS is for everyone, I  built it as an experiment because it intrigued me.
I was perfectly happy with the original Bendix system that I completely rebuilt many years ago. After I swapped I will not go back, I have a less cluttered engine bay and a big drop in under hood temperatures.

The set up you have on the 331 is very impressive and I’m sure you will be happy with it.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/02/2021 9:41 PM  #20


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Epas would be nice but I needed a new box, so borgeson was best choice for me. I was able to buy a kit with a type I saginaw pump and sell off that pump to someone else that needed it.

My 66 has had a TCP rack in it since 2005 with zero issues, except the driver side boot is going out. I have never seen any seepage at all anywhere.  It has the KRC pump that has performed flawlessly and silently.  I debated whether to put one on the 69, but price was discouraging.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/02/2021 9:43 PM  #21


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

This is the EPAS unit I will be putting in my Mustang.  Should go nicely with my manual rac
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/6264/pbbgty.jpg

 

12/02/2021 10:21 PM  #22


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

I understand the later Corolas are the same unit.  Friend just bought a Prius unit for a 52 Willys PU.  That's a pretty slick conversion.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

12/03/2021 8:58 PM  #23


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

Sounds like, as time goes on, more and more suitable EPAS units will be designed and become available in salvage yards.  Maybe, someday, I will have something that needs one.

Next project is my 56 F100, but it already has power Mustang II rack installed.  Seems like it would be a great candidate if that rack ever goes south. The newer racks have the EPAS made onto them, so it would be as simple as mounting the new rack.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

12/03/2021 10:31 PM  #24


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

MS wrote:

Sounds like, as time goes on, more and more suitable EPAS units will be designed and become available in salvage yards.  Maybe, someday, I will have something that needs one.

Next project is my 56 F100, but it already has power Mustang II rack installed.  Seems like it would be a great candidate if that rack ever goes south. The newer racks have the EPAS made onto them, so it would be as simple as mounting the new rack.

 
Most of the limited scrounging around I did found that the newer racks with built in electric assist were front steer and the travel was too short for our stock spindles.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/04/2021 8:46 PM  #25


Re: More 331 progress, and a question for Saginaw Gen II owners

That's a mighty fine looking engine you have there Steve. I have a question for you. I thought I remembered that you sold your 1956 Ford truck or am I getting it mixed up with another Truck that you've had in your Shop? Depending on the banjo size they sell banjo to AN maybe that would work for you?  My 1965 mustang has a 289 c4 stock exhaust manifolds. I have a Borgeson power assist kit installed when I still had the engine and trans installed I noticed the drivers side exhaust manifold was almost touching my steering box. I'm now debating having my stock power steering box rebuilt and then buy or fabricate an EPAS unit for my car. I really don't like how close the manifold was. Then again maybe it will get better clearance I noticed that the drivers side motor mount was broken on the rubber maybe my issue? Dunno. A factory rebuilt box would definitely give me the most clearance.

Last edited by True74yamaha (12/04/2021 8:50 PM)

 

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