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12/05/2021 6:43 AM  #1


What fried?

I have a 69 Coupe that has been parked since apx 1975.   It ran fine when driven for the last time because I remember when my Dad drove it into the garage when it was parked. 

I haven't done anything with the car yet because I've been working on the 64.5 vert for what feels like the last 100 years. Anyway, yesterday I decided I would start playing with the 69 coupe to see if I could get it running this winter.

I wanted to turn the engine over so I pulled the plugs and put some oil down the cylinders and put a battery in it for the 1st time since '75. Much to my surprise, everything worked and even the interior done light turned on. Off to a good start I thought.

When I turned the key to try and turn the engine over, all the interior lights went out and a small puff of smoke rose from the solenoid area and now everything in the car is dead.

I assuming I fried the fuseable link?  If that fried, would it kill power to the interior lights too?


After that happened I decided to turn the engine over by hand. However that was strange too. The engine turned pretty easily with a wrench on the crank bolt, but I could not get it to make a full revolution. It would turn about 270 degrees and then lock up. If I turned it in the other direction, it would spin 270 degrees back and then lock up again.  Any thoughts on that one?

I was hoping to clean the carb and at least get it running off an external gas can this winter, but it doesn't look like that will be happening now.

 

12/05/2021 7:26 AM  #2


Re: What fried?

We’re the spark plugs in or out when you tried to tun the engine over?
If they were in it might be a hydraulic lock form too much oil or antifreeze in one cylinder.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

12/05/2021 7:47 AM  #3


Re: What fried?

As far as it turning over, if the plugs were in it I would first remove them and see if it will turn over.  If it still won't turn over with the plugs out you've got something stuck.  Probably there's a rust ring in the top of a cylinder that the piston can't travel beyond.  It formed because the engine sat and the top ring rust welded to the cylinder wall.

As far as the electrical, yes, if it has fusible links you fried one.  The load on the start circuit was enormous as the starter tried to crank over the stuck engine. 
 

 

12/05/2021 8:49 AM  #4


Re: What fried?

The plugs were out when I tried to turn it over with the starter and when I turned it by hand. I don't think the starter ever engaged at all when I turned the key, just a puff of smoke a fraction of a second after turning the key, but maybe it did engage for that brief moment.

If it is a ridge of rust preventing the full rotation and I'd have to pull the 302 anyway, I guess I might as well rebuild the 390 that I have sitting on the stand.

     Thread Starter
 

12/05/2021 8:55 AM  #5


Re: What fried?

With all plugs removed and it still happens…might have valves stuck open and hitting piston(s).
Especially after sitting for so long.

Did you prime the oil pump?

Check wiring from solenoid to firewall AND inspect wiring under dash just in case.

I would figure out engine first before trying to turn over with starter and damaging piston(s).

If valve(s) were stuck open and the starter turned over and came to a dead stop, you might have bent valve(s) now…hopefully not.

 

12/05/2021 9:12 AM  #6


Re: What fried?

How much oil did you pour in it?  Also, I'm no expert on 69 wiring but a quick look does not show any fusible links.  Check the heavy cables at the solenoid for corrosion under the insulation where the lug is crimped on.


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

12/05/2021 9:17 AM  #7


Re: What fried?

I had happen with our 67. It had been sitting for 18 yrs before I hauled it home . As you said only about 270 deg. each way. What had happen was that a lot of carbon had built up on the intake valves and on one the build up had let go. The valve opened and it all fell down inside. That one piston couldn't go over top dead center. I tried to force it over with a bar not knowing. I ended up cracking the piston below the rings and down the skirt.
Lesson learn the hard way....

Last edited by red351 (12/05/2021 9:18 AM)

 

12/05/2021 10:12 AM  #8


Re: What fried?

Bullet Bob wrote:

How much oil did you pour in it?  Also, I'm no expert on 69 wiring but a quick look does not show any fusible links.  Check the heavy cables at the solenoid for corrosion under the insulation where the lug is crimped on.

I agree w/BB on the electrical problem.  Check the battery connection to the starter solenoid, the power for everything else is fed from that connection ... that's where I would start troubleshooting. 

As Red351 indicated, I'd pull the valve covers and make sure all valves are intact and moving as they should when you turn the crank within the rotation you currently can get.  
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

12/05/2021 10:42 AM  #9


Re: What fried?

I filled the oil can with Marvel Mystery Oil and put 3 or 4 squirts from the can in each cylinder, so not a lot of oil.

I will pull the valve covers and check the valve motion and also see if I can blow out the cylinders with compressed air in case there is any carbon in there.

Cables are almost most certainly corroded. Will check those and cleanup/replace as necessary.

I am not concerned about any bent valves because the engine did not turn over at all with the key.

Thanks guys.

     Thread Starter
 

12/05/2021 11:02 AM  #10


Re: What fried?

Milwaukee makes a fairly cheap borescope that can go through a spark plug hole no problem.  Another diagnostic tool worth having.  Milwaukee stuff usually goes on sale around this time at Home Depot. 

 

12/05/2021 12:11 PM  #11


Re: What fried?

Well I guess I didn't make myself clear. The build up fell off the valve. The valve closed all the way but left what was on the stem/tulip part down inside the cylinder and got smashed between the head and piston top

 

12/05/2021 1:41 PM  #12


Re: What fried?

Did you really HOPE it would crank after almost 50 years of  sitting?!
Stuff that old takes a LOT of prep to get a successful  fire-off!
REMOVE PLUGS (for one!)
Squirt oil in each hole
Let it sit for a couple days
Prime oil pump
Turn engine over BY HAND
Fill carb bowl
Hook up fresh battery
Then attempt to crank
Hey.....this is how we learn stuff, right?!
Your next step IMHO.....pull the heads and take a look.
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

12/05/2021 2:10 PM  #13


Re: What fried?

Both the 69 and 70 have a pink wire according to the diagrams. But they both go to the tach, and coil via a different colored wire, lights and other places. The 70 shows it as resisted but the 69 does not. The other day when starting my Mustang the smoke leaked out of the starter solenoid. 

Last edited by HudginJ3 (12/05/2021 2:16 PM)


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edie 750cfm. Performer heads & intake Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

12/05/2021 4:58 PM  #14


Re: What fried?

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-M12-12-Volt-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-M-Spector-360-Degree-Digital-Inspection-Camera-Kit-with-One-1-5-Ah-Battery-and-Tool-Bag-2313-21/202932657

Just the tool is only $160 if you already have a battery and charger.  Pulling heads sounds like a lot of work if its avoidable.  Just sayin'.
 

 

12/05/2021 5:36 PM  #15


Re: What fried?

Try harbor freight's inspection camera....one for $29 one foe $69

 

12/05/2021 7:18 PM  #16


Re: What fried?

Bore scope is a good idea. I actually have one and will take a look.

     Thread Starter
 

12/07/2021 9:38 AM  #17


Re: What fried?

When I bought my 66 back in 1992, the owner stated it was running when parked. It was NOT running, nor would that engine ever run again.
The carbon in the cylinders had fallen down and gotten lodged in the area between the top cylinder ring and the piston/cylinder wall. It was locked up so bad I had to ise a sledge hammer and block of wood to get them to come out of the block.
Yours is obviously not that bad, but has the potential to be, if you keep messing with it.
Pull the engine and disassemble it, using carb cleaner to dissolve what is locked up if needed.
Otherwise, you will just be doing more and more damage as time goes on.
You may get away with just cleaning it up and putting rings and bearings in it. If you get it started as-is, who knows what is in there?
This coming from a guy that ENJOYS building engines. Your fun may not be in the same game, but the advice is still sound.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

12/07/2021 1:32 PM  #18


Re: What fried?

You can get a boroscope accessary for your smart phone.  I have the "Depstech wireless endoscope wf010" for my Android, about $30 on Amazon.  Works well.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

12/07/2021 3:37 PM  #19


Re: What fried?

Ford didn't start using fusible links until 1970, and I know from experience that the 69s don't have any. The problem with the engine being locked-up stalled the starter and that probably took out the starter solenoid. But, you still have a connection issue someplace. I doubt it fried any wires. Check all the cable connections (positive and negative) and don't forget the engine ground going from the back of the passenger side head to the firewall (assuming its a V8).

 

12/07/2021 4:21 PM  #20


Re: What fried?

 

12/07/2021 4:37 PM  #21


Re: What fried?

https://i.ibb.co/18YMqkr/69MUST.jpg

Last edited by True74yamaha (12/07/2021 5:50 PM)

 

12/07/2021 5:50 PM  #22


Re: What fried?

https://i.ibb.co/yWGyhtJ/OIP-1.jpg

 

12/08/2021 7:17 AM  #23


Re: What fried?

BobE wrote:

You can get a boroscope accessary for your smart phone.  I have the "Depstech wireless endoscope wf010" for my Android, about $30 on Amazon.  Works well.

 
Yup, that's the one I have.

Thanks, Steve, True and Mach. I will do a little more investigating and see if I can get the engine to turn over a full time revolution by hand. If not, it will wait until I pull the engine when I start start working on the car in earnest, which will be a while still.

     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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