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In regards to an all new performance 331 hydraulic roller build I'm wondering what people think about oil pumps. I've got a Melling 68HV but have seen comments like the following while reading around recently. Seems to make some sense, anything to it?
"If you're using standard clearances, use a standard pump. Otherwise, all a high volume pump does is push oil through the bypass, take extra (wasted) HP to run, and puts more strain on the pump shaft/distributor/cam gear."
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I couldn't have said it better my-durn-self!
SBF's have an excellent oiling system...standard pressure pump.....Melling is a good pump.
(I have read where the "standard Melling" pump is OK butt......they make a high(er) quality one for a little more $$$....where have I read THAT before!?)
6sally6
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I used a standard pressure/volume Melling in my 331.
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Yes, std/std.
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Don’t forget to use a ARP heavy duty oil pump drive shaft.
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Thanks, looks like I’ve got an oil pump for eBay!
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Rudi wrote:
Don’t forget to use a ARP heavy duty oil pump drive shaft.
I do have the ARP shaft. No pencils please. -
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I've never run a high volume oil pump in any engine I've ever built. I've only ever built engines that have good oiling systems (SBF, SBC, BBC, etc.). High volume pumps are a crutch for a bad oiling system (Pontiac, Buick, AMC, etc.). In an engine that doesn't need them all they do is load the distributor gear, try to twist the driveshaft, and waste power. They also contribute to aeration because the oil is constantly being sucked out of the pan and pushed up to the top end, where it then has to drain back to the pan.
I've used standard volume Melling pumps in my last two builds. I checked the clearances and they were blueprinted out of the box. Really, really good quality parts IMO.
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On several dyno runs we noticed my race motors ran stronger (more HP) with higher rod bearing clearances. High volume pump and all. Still don't get real high pressures even up to 8000+ rpm. I'll keep my high volume pump. Never had a bearing problem. On some applications they are your friend. I wouldn't think one is needed on a street motor unless you open up the clearances.
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DC wrote:
On several dyno runs we noticed my race motors ran stronger (more HP) with higher rod bearing clearances. High volume pump and all. Still don't get real high pressures even up to 8000+ rpm. I'll keep my high volume pump. Never had a bearing problem. On some applications they are your friend. I wouldn't think one is needed on a street motor unless you open up the clearances.
The big question is: how wide were the clearances? Also, what oil were you running? What other modifications were made to the oiling system? What were the specifications of the engine? I'm assuming its a SBF.
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.030 over 302 at 12.2 compression by rules I can only run .500 valve lift with spec heads for American Sedan.
I have increased bearing clearances by almost a thousandth over stock. That made nice power gain at high end. With the Fort Motorsports block and all forged rotating parts, max revs are increased. With the stock clearances, bearings did not like the high revs. Engine revs a lot nicer with more bearing clearances. I have run several different good oils and haven't found much difference from the good old green stuff.
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DC wrote:
.030 over 302 at 12.2 compression by rules I can only run .500 valve lift with spec heads for American Sedan.
I have increased bearing clearances by almost a thousandth over stock. That made nice power gain at high end. With the Fort Motorsports block and all forged rotating parts, max revs are increased. With the stock clearances, bearings did not like the high revs. Engine revs a lot nicer with more bearing clearances. I have run several different good oils and haven't found much difference from the good old green stuff.
Yeah, crazy to think, but 0.001" in terms of bearing clearance is a huge increase. I can see why you would need more volume. Did you restrict the top end oiling? Is the cam still hydraulic?
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DC wrote:
.030 over 302 at 12.2 compression by rules I can only run .500 valve lift with spec heads for American Sedan.
I have increased bearing clearances by almost a thousandth over stock. That made nice power gain at high end. With the Fort Motorsports block and all forged rotating parts, max revs are increased. With the stock clearances, bearings did not like the high revs. Engine revs a lot nicer with more bearing clearances. I have run several different good oils and haven't found much difference from the good old green stuff.
Sure does make sense that a nice loose engine will make more power. Reduced friction and all. I think HV pumps got a bad name with people using heavy oil turning their drive shafts in to barber poles and also with really high extended RPM applications overloading the gravity drain. Basically not really stuff people on the street will see.
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For the street a good quality standard volume/pressure pump with an ARP driveshaft is all a SBF needs. In racing, if forced to run a wet sump, you do what you need to do to make the engine survive. Once you start pulling serious Gs in any direction the inadequacies of a wet sump become apparent fairly quickly and expensively. The best oiling system is always going to be a dry sump. Exotic street cars have used them for decades. Even the Corvette uses dry sump oiling now. I heard a dirt track racer explain it like this: with a wet sump they tore the engine down after every race and replaced the bearings. With a dry sump they got an entire season out of a set of bearings. The initial expense of the dry sump setup paid for itself many times over in savings on parts, not to mention time.
Online!
I'm using a Melling hi-volume oil pump with the ARP drive shaft in my 351W. In the past, I've used a Melling hi-volume pump in a 289 drage race engine with the OEM shaft and didn't have any issues.
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