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Hi all, I think i know the answer to this as EVERY kit seems to be for DRUM Spindles (what a world we live in where something equipped with what we want, only upgraded doesnt really exist)..........buuuut what Id like to know is if there is any was to convert to Kelsey Hayes without Changing the Spindle?
Was attempting to do this on a budget, those spindles which were considered waste for decades are now gold!
my car over went a full restoration so my parts are beautiful, perhaps someone would like a trade once mine are removed to help save me? if I end up going that route.
I was intending to use the same Spindles and Rotors to save $$ while upgrading the calipers.......Any Ideas?
Regards,
Jeff
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I don’t think four piston Kelsey Hayes calipers are an upgrade over single piston 68 discs. Is that what you meant? Or, are you talking about a MustangSteve bigger brake setup from a newer Mustang, which would be an improvement.
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MS wrote:
I don’t think four piston Kelsey Hayes calipers are an upgrade over single piston 68 discs. Is that what you meant? Or, are you talking about a MustangSteve bigger brake setup from a newer Mustang, which would be an improvement.
Yes, this is essentially what I was asking.......If there is any way to upgrade the Caliper on the Factory Disc (single piston) system.........Everything is for Drum Spindles.....
why has no one made a Bracket for the Kelsey Hayes to Bolt to the 3-Bolt Triangle Flange? or, just where the Single Caliper mount holes/Bolts using a Mod?
I don't want to spend $1000CAN or more for the brakes and I have 15" Torque Thrusts......Everything is Brand New, it would be nonsense........But I would like improved Braking, If I must, i will Buy Used Drum Spindles. My Objective is to utilize as much of what I have, if Possible!
Last edited by M1Mustang69 (2/25/2022 9:59 AM)
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What size wheels will work with that Baer kit?
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MS wrote:
What size wheels will work with that Baer kit?
first 2 images use this "
Baer is " and it states 18" wheels
has anyone tried changing the flange of the K/H mounting bracket to fit the Triangle Base? I dont know why but i feel like the base is the only difference from the Drum Spindle, isnt it? the geometry is all the same, its not like these cars handled differently or had any other specs changed from the 68 and Up Disc Spindle vs. Drum Spindle, Right?
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Another option I found for 68 disc brakes, I have on my Cougar
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BTaylor wrote:
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Another option I found for 68 disc brakes, I have on my Cougar
Truly Great Option.........but look at that price! I should be able to do this for under $500 with brand new Calipers and Brackets, If I had a Drum Spindle! this is Nonsense! Between the Baer Style Adapter that uses the Caliper Stud Mounting, or this Ring Type from Wilwood, how has no one made them for Kelsey Hayes? its as simple as repositioning the Mounts for the K/H Caliper.......Possibly some geometry changes, maybe simply achieved with shims.......
I tell ya If I had a machine shop Id be all over this! (but mostly if I didnt get Terminated for the Covid Vaccine Nonsense, Id start investing my time and money on it)
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I designed brakes for all the years of Mustang brakes to fit Mustang ii spindles, which are very similar.
But, so far I have only ever heard of one person wanting to install Kelsey Hayes calipers.
Just get drum spindles and bolt them up like the factory did if you insist on using K/H calipers.
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Gee, after using them for about 25 years I am really disappointed that my 68 O/E single piston disk brakes are considered “junk”😩
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Rudi wrote:
Gee, after using them for about 25 years I am really disappointed that my 68 O/E single piston disk brakes are considered “junk”😩
Rudi, I think that was expressed in my original comment. The single piston 68-73 brakes are considered superior to the early, fixed caliper four piston brakes. I have the single piston brakes on my 69 and they work great. They are not BUG BRAKES, but work fine
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Ok I think I need to apologize if I offended anyone......100% not my intention or objective. the big single caliper are not "Junk" but in comparison to modern designs (from the 90's and up) they are inferior.....the K/H Design and tech although improved are still used today by dozens of manufacturers and aftermarket corps, come standard on performance cars and bigger/better of said designs are offered with upgrade.
Prior to checking in on here I read countless forums both current but mostly Dated supporting the 4 piston over the single, most information stating Fords switch was mostly driven by finances.....
As it turns out MS i likely will have to change the Spindle, much to my point its frustrating and silly to have to do so. after all these years there isnt an adapter to marry the 4 piston stock caliper to the newer spindle design. It would save costs on a conversion and benefit on the road while maintaining a stock appearance (and not to mention aesthetically more pleasing).
I received an email from SSBC.....turns out this spring they are releasing an Adapter that will do just this.....dont have to change the spindle or rotor......a bracket and caliper they had designed and produce.......I will see what the price tag will be
again I apologize if i offended.
regards
Jeff
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As I have always suggested. Sell your entire disc brake setup, spindles and all for a good price. Then buy the drum spindles. You will come out way ahead.
Otherwise, you will have leftover calipers snd rotors that are more difficult to sell.
Or fond somebody with a drum brake car that wants discs and make a trade.
The early K/H calipers are prone to seized pistons if you don’t change fluid every year, plus use an inferior, thinner rotor. They work fine if properly cared for. Single piston calipers are less problematic for most cars where the owner doesn’t want to have to deal with seized caliper pistons.
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MS wrote:
As I have always suggested. Sell your entire disc brake setup, spindles and all for a good price. Then buy the drum spindles. You will come out way ahead.
Otherwise, you will have leftover calipers snd rotors that are more difficult to sell.
Or fond somebody with a drum brake car that wants discs and make a trade.
The early K/H calipers are prone to seized pistons if you don’t change fluid every year, plus use an inferior, thinner rotor. They work fine if properly cared for. Single piston calipers are less problematic for most cars where the owner doesn’t want to have to deal with seized caliper pistons.
SSBC came about to correct that sticking problem with stainless cylinder liners on the stock calipers. The stock calipers would rust in the space outside the sealer ring. In fact, they ended up making calipers that came with stainless bores. (Actually, they began doing that to correct the same problem with Corvettes)
I ran the SSBC calipers beginning around 1990 and had no problems with the same set until I upgraded to Willwood 12.19's around 2014. I would have preferred doing the upgrade with the 4-piston KEH calipers and an adapter so they could move outboard that half inch. Not to be.
I think single piston calipers were invented because of the sticking propensity of the 4-piston ones. Also, fewer parts and they were self aligning. You did not have to deal with differing pad thickness between the two sides. Maintenance might have been easier too as the single piston is more accessable than a 4-piston. Try to remove one of those stuck piatons. My first one took 8 hours! - I was much younger and had much less money to throw at it. There were brake places that would not even deal with them.
Now I have 4-piston Wilwoods and they work just fine. They have ss cylinders, I think. But I do not drive the 20,000 miles+ a year that I used to.
I do admit, however, that I spent many hours that first few decades extracting pistons from calipers. In addition, to the rust, the sealing rings had a habit of gluing themselves to the caliper walls when used heavily or over long periods. I procured an extra set of calipers and could exchange the sticking ones in less than 20 minutes a side. I was pretty proud of myself.
As to the rotors. Originals were 2-part with a hat and a separate rotor that were swaged together (I think that is the term). They were thicker than later versions that were one piece. The wheel studs were different too - not compatible. Ask me how I know.
Last edited by lowercasesteve (2/26/2022 9:25 PM)
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MS Im not Certain which route I will be taking exactly but It will likely be the one you suggest (remove the entire setup and replace entire setup)......
Im going to entertain the idea of SSBC's New set (part # will be : A213) this way I can have something to revert to if needed......
pros and cons.....Im ok with spending $500, but if I spend $1000 or more I would sell stuff to offset.
Truth be told I battle between upgrading the Front, or converting the rear to Disc.....I always wanted Rear Disc, but the cost of those setups has gotten wild.....plus its more invasive work
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Please clarify for the studio audience: do you currently have a complete 1968 front disk brake set up?
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I do.....My Car was fully restored 6yrs ago......
It has All Original Suspension Braking From 68! So 68 and Up Single Piston Calipers and Spindles......
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I guess I'm a little confused after reading all of this. If your goal is to improve braking performance with a 15" diameter wheel restriction by switching from the 68 single piston factory discs to some 4-piston caliper setup I think you're on the wrong track. For street use I'd argue that the only thing that will really make a noticeable difference is running a bigger diameter rotor, which you won't be able to do with 15" wheels, or upgrading pads and rotors. A modern multi-piston setup has advantages in racing applications (where many other variables need to be considered and addressed besides just caliper design) but for the street a well designed single piston caliper with quality rotors and pads will work equally well under most circumstances.
I've got 13.2" / 11.75" 2011-14 Mustang GT brakes on my 66 with MustangSteve bracket kits (easy-peasy both ends btw). Calipers and rotors are factory take-offs that I picked up cheap in 2013 and installed with good Hawk pads and it stops like a bug hitting a windshield. 17" min. wheel requirement though (and not all those will clear the calipers).
When my daily driver needed new brakes I upgraded pads and installed PowerStop drilled and slotted rotors, properly bedded they've been a noticeable improvement over the OEM parts with no other changes. I've got 50k + spirited driving on the rotors and it's hard to tell by looking at them, under the foot they're still smooth and silky....I'd buy them again. Calipers haven't been touched since the car left the factory.
I'd suggest a pad and rotor upgrade as best bang for the buck if you don't want to change a bunch of other stuff and run larger diameter wheels.
Last edited by McStang (2/28/2022 1:35 AM)
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McStang wrote:
I guess I'm a little confused after reading all of this. If your goal is to improve braking performance with a 15" diameter wheel restriction by switching from the 68 single piston factory discs to some 4-piston caliper setup I think you're on the wrong track. For street use I'd argue that the only thing that will really make a noticeable difference is running a bigger diameter rotor, which you won't be able to do with 15" wheels, or upgrading pads and rotors. A modern multi-piston setup has advantages in racing applications (where many other variables need to be considered and addressed besides just caliper design) but for the street a well designed single piston caliper with quality rotors and pads will work equally well under most circumstances.
Thank You McStang for the insight and info.......MS and others have been supporting your statement. I guess I just can not wrap my head around a single piston operating as well as 4, esp seeing what goes on most performance cars (even the lower end like Lexus, Acura and those type S models ect.) No to mention they look better
I appreciate you relating and understanding the cost/return factor. Im a very simple person living a very simple life. I make a modest income until recently and the only reason I have a car like this is because I started when I was 23, now 40 in a week not married and no kids. If I tried to start at this stage, I would not be able to play. And for this I feel blessed and greatly appreciative of what I have.......I will Attach a photo and it should explain why I do not want to molest the car too much, plus Ive alway preferred a "Sleeper" type deal as apposed to flashy. If i can look stock and go like snot Im most happy! (decently modified 302 strapped to a T5 which I installed......all that is left is changing it from a 3.25 diff to 3.55.............I had 3.73 in my 69 with a T5 I installed and decently modded 351W and it took away from Cruising experience and forced it to be a little too aggressive, as I get older I want a happier marriage between HOT ROD and Sweet Cruiser!)
Would Rear Disc Improve Breaking????
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Dark Red Interior ......... Also just to make clear, I drive it ---- A LOT......and Im 40 not 80, so I like speed and Leaning Into it time to Time as well! with the Modded Engine and T5, its easy and its imperative to improve breaking along with the rest
Last edited by M1Mustang69 (2/28/2022 6:26 AM)
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I agree with McStang. Upgrade pads and rotors and call it a day. In addition to the suggested Power Stop option, look at pads from Hawk, Porterfield and EBC. Apply the KISS principle and enjoy the ride...
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When I had the Granada spindles and single piston calipers, the semi-metallic pads for “police” and “taxi” service worked great.
My 65 coupe stopped better than my 92 GT hatchback.
Nice car.
Last edited by Nos681 (2/28/2022 8:41 AM)
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Wow! She's a beauty. Hawk HPS pads are pretty darn good in my experience. I've got a lot of miles on a few pairs of these on several vehicles. The most important thing, with pretty much any new pad & rotor set, is to properly bed the new parts. Do that and things will work better and last longer even if it's just a grocery getter.
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