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3/02/2022 9:01 PM  #1


Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

I got the steering box and the column installed on the 69 today.
And, finalized the 69-70 cable clutch system design.
Only two more months to wait for my Vintage Air system to be shipped so I can button up the dash.



Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/03/2022 12:11 AM  #2


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

Where did you get, or how did you make that boot on the firewall?


'66 Fastback since July 27, 1981. Springtime Yellow, originally a 200 cu in, 4 speed. Also a '92 LX Coupe, 5.0, 5 speed.
 

3/03/2022 12:59 AM  #3


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

looks nice


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

3/03/2022 8:07 AM  #4


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

Cant wait the for the review on it!

 

3/03/2022 9:15 AM  #5


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

The firewall boot is original to the car


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

3/03/2022 10:44 AM  #6


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

I’m curious as to why the need for a bearing in the lower steering column.
I think the original set up only had a flimsy plastic bushing and some type of foam seal in that position and the steering box input bearing supported the lower end of the steering shaft through the rag joint. It seems to me that the Borgeson steering box would be similar in that respect.

I see the need for that support bearing in a R&P set up because of the use of double universal jointed shafts.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/03/2022 11:02 AM  #7


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

Rudi wrote:

I’m curious as to why the need for a bearing in the lower steering column.
I think the original set up only had a flimsy plastic bushing and some type of foam seal in that position and the steering box input bearing supported the lower end of the steering shaft through the rag joint. It seems to me that the Borgeson steering box would be similar in that respect.

I see the need for that support bearing in a R&P set up because of the use of double universal jointed shafts.

Seems a bearing would better stabilize the rag joint than a ‘flimsy’ plastic bushing, and provide longer life of the joint … well, that’s my guess.

 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

3/03/2022 12:28 PM  #8


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

BobE wrote:

Rudi wrote:

I’m curious as to why the need for a bearing in the lower steering column.
I think the original set up only had a flimsy plastic bushing and some type of foam seal in that position and the steering box input bearing supported the lower end of the steering shaft through the rag joint. It seems to me that the Borgeson steering box would be similar in that respect.

I see the need for that support bearing in a R&P set up because of the use of double universal jointed shafts.

Seems a bearing would better stabilize the rag joint than a ‘flimsy’ plastic bushing, and provide longer life of the joint … well, that’s my guess.

 

 I think the plastic bushing kind of floats between the steering shaft and outer column tube, not an actual bearing.
The way I look at it,  with the column bearing in place any misalignment between the steering shaft axis and Borgeson input axis and concentricity between the two would put more strain on the rag joint than it would without it.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/03/2022 12:39 PM  #9


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

Remember, early steering shafts were mounted in a fixed manner to the steering box, negating the need for a lower bearing.  modern ones are not fixed, thus needing one.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

3/03/2022 3:00 PM  #10


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

IMO there's a couple things about the Borgeson system that are just Mickey Mouse.  The way they handle the bottom of the column is one of them.  The MS bearing setup is MUCH better than the way they did it.  The rag joint takes out any misalignment.  The shaft needs support at the bottom of the column.  I would posit that a worn Borgeson bushing would be much more likely to cause issues than a MS bearing. 

The floor bracket to support the column in my '67 was a joke too.  I fabbed my own that didn't require a hose clamp.

The pump brackets are hard to adjust and tighten and rely on two long bolts that seem to flex too much (one of mine broke actually and I had to replace it).  Eventually I'm converting to Fox front dress and it will solve this issue. 
 

 

3/03/2022 3:19 PM  #11


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

I guess that the later 67-68 and up could be considered modern compared to the 65-66 “spear-o- matic” steering shafts but the 67-68 still worked properly without any lower bearing, even when the plastic bushing had disintegrated as they some times do.
When I designed my EPAS I used a universal joint at the power head out put connected to a collapsible splined shaft with the lower part of the shaft with a rag joint, no bearing required. The set up is solid with no play whatsoever.
Just sayin!




Last edited by Rudi (3/03/2022 3:36 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/03/2022 4:36 PM  #12


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

The later '67-onwards setup is relying on the bearings in the steering box to support the bottom of the shaft since its connected to the box by the rag joint.  Yet that plastic bushing wearing out shows its really not enough support.  U-joints are a better setup for sure.  I've converted by '89 GT to u-joints.  Baring that though I just feel better with a bearing in the bottom of the column instead of a bushing.  Come to think of it I really just prefer bearings in most cases to bushings.  I've just seen too many bushings fail.  Bearing failures have been much fewer and farther between. 

 

3/03/2022 8:22 PM  #13


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

I wanted the rag joint to eliminate roughness felt through the column when using a u-joint as experienced on my 66.  The lower bearing keeps everything held together. Otherwise the rsg joint is the only thing keeping the inner column from traveling upward. This way, everything is captured.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     Thread Starter
 

3/04/2022 4:55 AM  #14


Re: Borgeson steering box and MustangSteve column bearing on 69 Stang

My assumption as to why the OEMs didn't use u-joints was NVH concerns.  Seems MS just confirmed that. 

 

Board footera


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