FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

3/30/2022 8:43 AM  #1


Waterpump seal problem!

Hi everybody,

Has been a loooong while since visiting here but life guides you and one has to follow! 

I started working on cars again and have a problem with a wp seal.

Data; 
1970 Mustang hardtop witth a Ford Racing crate engine (340HP), C4 tranny, 8" rear, Serpentine belt system on REVERSE rotating wp. 

I was told that they left the car in the cold and the wp started to leak badly above the passenger side block water inlet. I replaced the seals, cleaned up the back of the wp on a glass with sandpaper, put on the backing plate, installed it and thought it's done! It wasn't, the next morning it started leaking again from the same spot. Now I am on the 3th seal package and am done with it. 
The heater core is open,
The high flow thermostat is working properly,
All passages are free and clear.......... I have no idea left!

No overheating.

The leak is more a squish between the pump and backing plate. The seal is forced out of its place.
WP pulley is 115mm (4.5")
CS pulley is 170mm  (6.6") 
The pulleys are aluminum, but couldn't find a number or brand on them.

Anybody has an idea of what is going on?

Thanks in advance!

Last edited by Mustsed (3/30/2022 1:02 PM)

 

3/30/2022 8:55 AM  #2


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Probably the wrong gasket. I had the same problem recently with a reverse rotation pump on an older style timing cover. The shape of the gasket around the driver side port is different.

Pull the pump. Make sure the gasket fits all the sealing surfaces on the timing cover. Then make sure it fits all the sealing surfaces on the pump. There sre two different gaskets with one area that is slightly different.
Also, remove the steel cover from the back of the pump and install a new gasket on there. ALL water pump gaskets should have a paper thin layer of RTV sealant applied, NO MORE than that!


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/30/2022 9:06 AM  #3


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Thanks MS, 

That's all I have done so far. Pretty sure the gasket is the right one and both gaskets are replaced every time. There are two different gaskets in my seals box and this one is for the reverse pump. 

Tried to upload a pic but to no avail!

Mustsed

     Thread Starter
 

3/30/2022 10:44 AM  #4


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Is the leak between the WP and timning cover, or timing cover and engine block?
Either way, I suggest checking for cracks in the timing cover, water pump and block.
If a crack is found, JB Weld may fix it.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

3/30/2022 12:29 PM  #5


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

I tried to explain all datas in my top question. No cracks, no warp, no corrosion but 3 blown seals (Pump to plate).

The pulleys are in a 1.47 ratio faster for the WP pulley, could this cause this? When the engine spins 4000rpm the pump spins 5880 rpm !?!?!? Is this OK for a WP?

Mustsed

     Thread Starter
 

3/30/2022 12:33 PM  #6


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

You typically don't need the water pump to spin faster than crank speed.  Normally guys under drive the water pump to gain power or avoid cavitation at high RPM. 

However, if the system is not restricted (good radiator cap, t-stat opens, lower hose not collapsing, bypass not blocked, etc.) it shouldn't get over pressure enough to blow a seal.
 

 

3/30/2022 1:10 PM  #7


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Hi Sedat! Good to hear from you again. I haven't experienced the issue you are having before, but something like you are describing would seem to me to be an issue not so much with the sealing surfaces, but maybe, since the engine was cold soaked, that perhaps you have a hairline crack in that location that is leaking where there is no sealing surface. I have looked for cracks too small for the naked eye by using a dye penetrant inspection technique. There are kits available online for that, but they can be expensive. Best of luck with finding your leak, and I'm praying that all the turmoil taking place in your part of the world can end soon.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

3/30/2022 1:58 PM  #8


Re: Waterpump seal problem!





Stock 92 Mustang setup (reverse rotation pump).
(My setup in a 65)

Last edited by Nos681 (3/30/2022 2:09 PM)

 

3/30/2022 2:07 PM  #9


Re: Waterpump seal problem!



Stock 92 Mustang water pump gaskets.
(My setup in a 65)

Last edited by Nos681 (3/30/2022 2:09 PM)

 

3/30/2022 5:04 PM  #10


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Plate to back of Waterpump leaking......
My fix.......take the gasket and roll it VERY tightly in a cylinderical shape...then fold it over its self.
Then place the gasket in your right hand and......see just how far you can throw it!!!
Clean both sides of mating surfaces with lacquer thinner or Brakleen (I love that stuff!). Then apply a generous bead of blue or red RTV all around the mating surfaces. Bolt them together and wait 12 hours or so before exposing the pump to any liquid.
IF that don't do it........check for cracked pump housing.
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/30/2022 7:02 PM  #11


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Hey Sedat....its good to hear from you....ITS REALLY ME.


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

3/30/2022 7:19 PM  #12


Re: Waterpump seal problem!



RIGHT







WRONG

Last edited by MS (3/30/2022 7:20 PM)


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/31/2022 12:50 AM  #13


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Hi everybody,

I added a picture on top of this thread with the blowing gasket. It is not dripping or creating a little puddle, it is squirting on top of the battery! I didn't count the numbers of waterpumps I installed but never had an issue like this before. Today I will hose the block passages to see if there is something blocking the water. Let you know the results. Thanks for all help!

Mustsed

     Thread Starter
 

3/31/2022 8:33 AM  #14


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

From your picture, it appears that gasket is not being sufficiently compressed and does not appear to have any sealer on it. The sealer part is not as important as the compression of the gasket in my opinion.
Use a straightedge to check the pump. Since you have tried multiple pumps, that is probably not the issue.


I am thinking the water pump bolts are too long and, when you tighten them down, they are bottoming in the holes in the block before they actually clamp the pump to the timing cover and block.

Cut 1/8” off the bolts and I bet your problem will go away, with a new gasket and paper thin layer of RTV applied to both sides of both gaskets.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/31/2022 10:46 AM  #15


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Hi everybody,

I might misspelled it but this is the orginal waterpump to this engine. I don't have another reverse in stock to check but am sure the rear of the wp is true. I put a sandpaper on a glass and trued it and checked the Timing chain cover with a ruler which also looks straight to my eyes. The seal is greased instead of sealer.

The same pump is on there for over 10 years and always run with propper coolant. The pump itself looks also brand new internal with only little corrosion on the backing plate. All of sudden this problem appeared and i can't fix it. 

Never tought of the bolt issue which might be true because 3 bolts are different. To late for today but will check tomorrow.

Thanks
Mustsed

     Thread Starter
 

4/01/2022 9:24 AM  #16


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

Hi everybody,

Today i checked all bolts and spacers that hold the wp in place and it turned out that 1 spacer (just under the blow-out place) was 7 mm shorter then the upper one and two bolts were longer by 3 mm. This causes the Alt bracket to be in an angle and migth have caused a weak place where after continuous high pressure the seal is forced out.

The bracket turned out to be March ones and i could find the original lenghts of the bolts and spacers.  Now i have them all in the correct length and wait for the new wp and seals to re-install them. Fingers crossed!

Thanks all

Mustsed

     Thread Starter
 

4/26/2022 11:57 AM  #17


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

OK, just a fallower on this topik.

After the 4th seal replacement without luck, i removed the timing chain cover, cleaned it, bolted the wp to it and found a unvisible crack just behind the squirt. I looked with magnifying glasses before and nothing was visible. No time to order a new one so it was welded and the surface was trued. Will get to it in a few days and cross fingers that it will be done!

Thanks all for your suggestions,
Mustsed 

     Thread Starter
 

4/26/2022 2:07 PM  #18


Re: Waterpump seal problem!

That is a new one!

Well…Like Rosanne Rosanadana used to say…


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.