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7/02/2022 6:11 AM  #1


Found source of vibration

I started having a vibration that I thought may have been due to a u-joint or perhaps a tail-shaft bearing.

First long drive for this year was first weekend in June, about 300 miles round trip.
Checked all fluids and thought there was a little play in rear u-joint…maybe?

Well…as I was leaving a gas station after the fun run in downtown.
The car stopped dead in its tracks…kinda like driving a clutch for the first time.
Not liking what happened, I turned engine off and placed the T5 in neutral.
Got out and pushed the car.
I don’t remember which direction I pushed first.
Car rolled normally and I didn’t see anything pouring out underneath.

Made it home with similar vibration that was still noticeable to me.
Parked and figured I’d investigate further when time permits and with my work schedule.

Tuesday following weekend fun run was a nice day.
Open garage door, found gear oil on floor…closed garage door.
Went to work in my boring car.

Here’s what I found:







 

7/02/2022 6:23 AM  #2


Re: Found source of vibration

Yikes
I have not seen that before
What ratio are you running?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

7/02/2022 6:33 AM  #3


Re: Found source of vibration

I can't help but notice no thread locker on those bolts.  I wouldn't say this is a common problem, but it does happen.  This is one of those things I pay particular attention to when rebuilding a rear.  I thoroughly clean the bolt holes in the ring gear, and the bolts to degrease them (so the thread locker will work properly), and then apply thread locker and torque them to spec. 

 

7/02/2022 7:15 AM  #4


Re: Found source of vibration

Ouch, it's a wonder you made it home. Did it tear up any of the case?
 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

7/02/2022 8:57 AM  #5


Re: Found source of vibration

Alan wrote:

Ouch, it's a wonder you made it home. Did it tear up any of the case?
 

By case do you mean the part that has the chunk missing and the crack in it, or the housing?

Good eyes on the lack of Loc-tite TKO.

I think I'd be knocking on the door of the fella who built it.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

7/02/2022 10:40 AM  #6


Re: Found source of vibration

Ouch, glad you were able to make it home (and a bit surprised!)
How many miles did you have on this unit?
Is it a 8" or 9" rear?


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

7/02/2022 11:04 AM  #7


Re: Found source of vibration

Now that's just something you don't see everyday.   Not the bolts coming out without loctite.  But the fact that three fell out before the fourth one went boom.

And I've seen a few weird things. 

One of the weirdest I ever saw was someone brought me a minivan to work on with the complaint the transmission was slipping.  And it sometimes sounded funny starting.   Inspecting it I found the flex plate was completely broken in two in a somewhat circular break just past the flywheel bolts.  Yet somehow these bolts were catching on something and allowing the van to still drive.  I gave them a great estimate for fixing it, they decided not to.  They decided to buy another car and donate the van to charity.   Picked it up and DROVE it away.   I have always wanted to have dug into it just to see what the hec was catching to allow the thing to not only move, but start.  Maybe the tq drain plug?

There is always something to make you go hmmmm.


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

7/02/2022 11:05 AM  #8


Re: Found source of vibration

I meant the housing.


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

7/02/2022 3:02 PM  #9


Re: Found source of vibration

Alan wrote:

I meant the housing.

He's still busy working on it, but no damage to the housing thankfully.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

7/02/2022 3:39 PM  #10


Re: Found source of vibration

Bearing Bob wrote:

Alan wrote:

Ouch, it's a wonder you made it home. Did it tear up any of the case?
 

By case do you mean the part that has the chunk missing and the crack in it, or the housing?

Good eyes on the lack of Loc-tite TKO.

I think I'd be knocking on the door of the fella who built it.

With a Louisville Slugger.

 

7/03/2022 10:47 AM  #11


Re: Found source of vibration

No damage to factory 8” housing.
3.25 gears (Motive Gears made in Italy) no damage
Currie traction lock…approximately 15,000 miles
Found an 8” C7OW replacement carrier locally.

No Lock-tite visible on any ring gear bolts.
Only 1” bolts with about 1/4” thread engagement into the ring gear…depth is roughly 1-1/2”.
From what I have found, trac-loc uses 1-1/4” bolts.

Initial inspection today, all clutches and steel plates still look like new.
Did find a small amount of metal inside as expected.

Might take some work, but repairable.
Guess I needed something to do before the Bash. 😂

My wife said, “Do what you have to so we can take it to the Bash.”

Hmmmmm🤔

     Thread Starter
 

7/03/2022 11:05 AM  #12


Re: Found source of vibration

That's a good woman right there.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

7/03/2022 11:14 AM  #13


Re: Found source of vibration

Bearing Bob wrote:

That's a good woman right there.

Any guy playing with these things, and is still married, most likely has found a "Keeper".


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

7/03/2022 11:29 AM  #14


Re: Found source of vibration

Rebuilt my 9" over the winter, not too tough but i took a lot of time setting the gear pattern and used  solid spacer shims. 
Did have trouble with the spacers being too thick. Had to take them to work and have them surface ground down to the correct thickness.

 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

7/03/2022 1:26 PM  #15


Re: Found source of vibration

I had a 9" ring gear that was moving some that I found by accident. 

 

7/03/2022 2:19 PM  #16


Re: Found source of vibration

Alan wrote:

Rebuilt my 9" over the winter, not too tough but i took a lot of time setting the gear pattern and used  solid spacer shims. 
Did have trouble with the spacers being too thick. Had to take them to work and have them surface ground down to the correct thickness.

 

Having access to a surface grinder is like hitting the lotto.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

7/04/2022 10:22 AM  #17


Re: Found source of vibration

Nos681 wrote:

Only 1” bolts with about 1/4” thread engagement into the ring gear…depth is roughly 1-1/2”.
From what I have found, trac-loc uses 1-1/4” bolts.

My wife said, “Do what you have to so we can take it to the Bash.”

Hmmmmm🤔

The rule of thumb for thread engagement I’ve always heard, and found to be true, is whatever the diameter of the bolt should equal the length of thread engagement. 
 
Agree, support from your wife is very important, so get to work!
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

7/04/2022 12:24 PM  #18


Re: Found source of vibration

Anyone else thing the holes in the carrier are considerably larger than the ring gear bolts?  Seems kind of weird that it is manufactured that way.

Makes me glad I used NordLock washers on the last couple R&P I set up.

 

7/04/2022 1:47 PM  #19


Re: Found source of vibration

BobE wrote:

Nos681 wrote:

Only 1” bolts with about 1/4” thread engagement into the ring gear…depth is roughly 1-1/2”.
From what I have found, trac-loc uses 1-1/4” bolts.

My wife said, “Do what you have to so we can take it to the Bash.”

Hmmmmm🤔

The rule of thumb for thread engagement I’ve always heard, and found to be true, is whatever the diameter of the bolt should equal the length of thread engagement. 
 
Agree, support from your wife is very important, so get to work!
 

I'm not sure what it is for a blind hole, but for a nut and bolt the bolt is supposed to protrude through the nut by at least the diameter of the bolt. 
 

 

7/04/2022 3:20 PM  #20


Re: Found source of vibration

I feel like my ring gear kit came with new bolts.  Its been a while now.  I got things from three or four different places.   Some came from Currie, some from quick performance.   I really feel the need to dig up receipts.

Not questioning myself that I used locktite.  Questioning the ring gear bolt length.   I feel like I only reused the case.    Surely I used the proper bolts...


If multiple things can go wrong, the one that will go wrong will be the one that causes the most damage.
 

7/05/2022 8:40 AM  #21


Re: Found source of vibration

TKOPerformance wrote:

BobE wrote:

Nos681 wrote:

Only 1” bolts with about 1/4” thread engagement into the ring gear…depth is roughly 1-1/2”.
From what I have found, trac-loc uses 1-1/4” bolts.

My wife said, “Do what you have to so we can take it to the Bash.”

Hmmmmm🤔

The rule of thumb for thread engagement I’ve always heard, and found to be true, is whatever the diameter of the bolt should equal the length of thread engagement. 
 
Agree, support from your wife is very important, so get to work!
 

I'm not sure what it is for a blind hole, but for a nut and bolt the bolt is supposed to protrude through the nut by at least the diameter of the bolt. 
 

TKO – interesting, the discussion of how much of the bolt should protrude past the nut is an interesting one.  As far as strength, any threads past the end of the nut doesn’t do anything for the “structural integrity” of the bolted connection.  Some industries I’ve worked with require a minimum of one thread past the end of the nut, some wanted three threads.  This was more to provide for a visual inspection ensuring full thread engagement of the nut. 
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

7/05/2022 10:10 AM  #22


Re: Found source of vibration

BobE wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

BobE wrote:


The rule of thumb for thread engagement I’ve always heard, and found to be true, is whatever the diameter of the bolt should equal the length of thread engagement. 
 
Agree, support from your wife is very important, so get to work!
 

I'm not sure what it is for a blind hole, but for a nut and bolt the bolt is supposed to protrude through the nut by at least the diameter of the bolt. 
 

TKO – interesting, the discussion of how much of the bolt should protrude past the nut is an interesting one.  As far as strength, any threads past the end of the nut doesn’t do anything for the “structural integrity” of the bolted connection.  Some industries I’ve worked with require a minimum of one thread past the end of the nut, some wanted three threads.  This was more to provide for a visual inspection ensuring full thread engagement of the nut. 
 

My understanding was that it was to ensure that the bolt achieved proper stretch and therefore torque.  However, you see bolts and nuts that don't meet the requirement all the time, so maybe its just one of those urban legends...

 

7/05/2022 11:23 AM  #23


Re: Found source of vibration

The Machinery’s handbook take on thread length is in the pics below.  It is the gold standard,  but also requires a slide rule and a cocktail to interpret.

Just looking at the pics it seems like the bolts were a little short for the carrier used.  Also the bolts (screws) seem to be generic grade 8’s which should be fine, but there are counterfeit fasteners these days.  I would love to see a pic of the underside of the head on one of the bolts that worked it’s way out.  Seems like the holes in the carrier were very large for the fastener diameter.  I wonder if that had something to do with it. 

The carrier might be salvageable if you can get someone to touch up the spot facing where the ring gear fasteners go.



 

7/05/2022 11:40 AM  #24


Re: Found source of vibration

I love Machinery's Handbook.  If my high school math teacher had used it to teach trig and logs,  I might have understood them better. 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (7/05/2022 11:43 AM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

7/05/2022 11:48 AM  #25


Re: Found source of vibration

And yet with that resource readily available I'll bet they just threw in some bolts that were the proper thread and never bothered to even think beyond it. 

 

Board footera


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