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I read something yesterday where they were saying that we have about 30 - 50 years left for oil production. I'm not certain that I believe it, but wondered what you good folk think.
The Government seems to be pushing the whole electric vehicle agenda more and more. How long will we be allowed to drive these 289s, 351s, 390s etc?
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I've researched this thoroughly and have owned oil interests for a very long time. The idea that we are running our of fossil fuels is pure malarky. They first claimed this 50 years ago. The problem with these dumb predictions is they fail t take two things into account: new discoveries and new technology. Currently there is more oil known about in the world than we have used since we began using oil in the mid 19th century. Technology has also improved to the point where formerly abandoned wells have been resurrected and are bearing oil again.
Now, that's not to say there is a seemingly unlimited supply of CHEAP oil. The issue isn't running out. Its that the cheap oil was already drawn, and we are being forced to extract more and more expensive oil due to what we have to do to get to it. Consider the Earth is 71% covered by water. Most of the oil is under the oceans. We are able to drill deeper and deeper wells in the ocean, but the cost goes up the deeper we go, as does the potential for catastrophe. So the real question isn't how much oil we have left, the real question is how much oil do we have left at what price?
However, even that may prove to be unfounded as technological breakthroughs could reduce the cost of exploration and extraction. People also talk about declining demand, but that's mostly a red herring. You could convert all regular commuter traffic to electric vehicles and our demand for oil would barely notice. Everything we move is still moved by Diesel (over the road trucks, cargo ships, trains, and even airplanes burn jet fuel which is basically kerosene, which is dry Diesel). There is no alternative to Diesel at present. Straight biofuel doesn't work yet, and there's no other way to make that kind of power with that kind of range with that kind of ease of refueling. Until we find a real alternative to Diesel we are married to it and fossil fuels.
If the question is when are gas prices coming down I can explain that too, but suffice to say: not soon.
Last edited by TKOPerformance (11/14/2022 3:16 PM)
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My thought is the earth makes oil every day and the leaves I don't rack will be oil in 50 million years and no market for it.
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Toploader wrote:
I read something yesterday where they were saying that we have about 30 - 50 years left for oil production. I'm not certain that I believe it, but wondered what you good folk think.
The Government seems to be pushing the whole electric vehicle agenda more and more. How long will we be allowed to drive these 289s, 351s, 390s etc?
If I had time, I'd offer a reply to this age old hysteria but, I'm currently busy treading water due to all the glaciers and polar ice caps that have melted..........
Last edited by josh-kebob (11/14/2022 10:04 PM)
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Oh, and electric cars are being pushed to make a select few people rich with no care what the consequence is to the average American or the planet. If electric cars weren't subsidized almost no one would buy them, because they would be so much more expensive than gas models. Meanwhile we are strip mining the Earth to get the materials to build battery packs, which will be another problem when they need to be replaced in terms of both cost to the consumer and disposal. The cars are half plastic which comes from: OIL. All the mining for the lithium, cobalt, nickel, etc. is done with heavy equipment without pollution controls burning: DIESEL. A gas car takes 5 years to pollute as much as creating one battery pack does in a day. To say nothing of the state of our electric grid, and that 70% of our electricity is produced by fossil fuels. Oh well, so long as Elon Musk becomes the world's first trillionaire.
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Thanks for the posts TKO. I remember reading somewhere that oil reserves do replenish themselves and I think it's faster than what the so called experts let us know.
I'm very dubious of what media says (peddle) these days.
Does anyone think that the Government may eventually try and force the public to go electric, by increasing fuel costs to ludicrous prices, or even cut off supply?
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Oil is just one worry that we have if the current government is allowed to remain in power. Get out and vote and hope that the votes are actually being counted properly.
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The issue of fossil fuels vis a vis the government is another complicated situation. A lot of people blame the Biden administration for the high fuel costs, and while they do bear some responsibility; its not entirely their fault as often claimed. Did their actions cause the spot price for oil contracts to rise? Absolutely. What people claiming them blameless don't understand is that oil is a commodity. The prices in commodity markets are determined by a variety of factors, and not all of them are hard facts. When an administration clearly states they are gong to end fossil fuels and then takes steps to show they are serious its going to cause those commodity traders to start bidding those contracts up, and the price of oil to rise.
However, we have a perfect storm with fuel prices right now. Back in 2020 when the nation basically shut down during the pandemic the bottom fell out of the oil market in a way that's never happened before. Demand contracted so sharply in a market where demand is often looked at as more or less inflexible, that for the first time in history oil contracts went negative. The price for a 3 tanker contract became -$30,000, meaning they would literally pay you $30,000 to take the oil. Understand that those contracts are never meant to be realized by those traders. They have no interest in the actual oil. Their goal is to buy that contract low and sell it high without ever touching anything. The problem was that there was so much oil on hand and no place to store it that basically no one wanted to buy it and commodity traders were trying to do anything just to get rid of it. The instant that happened I knew that we were going to see fuel prices rise once the pandemic ended. Oil companies were not going to lose money, at least not long term, so there was going to be profit taking once they could do it without fear of being labeled pandemic profiteers, and once they ran through their excess inventory. So some of the price we are paying now is just that: oil companies making back the profits they lost in 2020-2021.
There is another major factor no one is talking about and that's why Diesel is so high, and what the future of that looks like. The world supply of Diesel right now is so low the last time we had this little the world had half its current population. There was also a worldwide agreement on marine Diesel called IMO2020, which almost no one talks about. It didn't make headlined because in 2020; it didn't matter. Basically its made it necessary to produce two distinct types of Diesel fuel, one for on the road use and another for marine use. This means infrastructure changes and the inability to use Diesel universally in all markets, basically making a scarce commodity scarcer.
A lot of folks are saying "just make more fuel". Oh, that it were that simple. Unfortunately, we really can't with our current infrastructure. We haven't built a new refinery since 1977, and the ones we have are running at 95% capacity, which factoring in time for maintenance shutdowns is about the realistic max.
Other folks say "just become self sufficient and use only American oil in America". We don't want to do that for two reasons. First, American oil is expensive to produce. We keep our domestic cost down by importing relatively cheap oil and exporting relatively expensive oil to China. Second, all crude isn't the same. Some crude is turned more readily into different fuels, so we tend to want the crude that produces the most of the fuels we use in the US, and US crude often isn't it. Now, we could realize a net cost reduction by exporting more than we import.
There's a lot of talk about excise taxes too. Truth is the average gallon of fuel is $0.60 tax more or less depending on your state. Removing this tax would obviously drop the price, but the money lost by the government is going to come from somewhere so that's probably a bad idea.
As for forcing us to go electric, well, CA is already doing that. Legislation passed that no more new gas cars can be sold after 2025. They've also mandated an end to fossil fuels for heat, hot water, and cooking in new homes. As for cutting off supply, I don't see it, but without a unified national energy policy that doesn't change with the fickle winds of elections why wold the oil industry invest in infrastructure? Refinerys are multi billion dollar investments. No smart business person would make that kind of investment, with a 3-5 year timeline for completion when the government could change the rules mid process. Therefore, the government IS driving up prices by being fossil fuel averse. However, the issue remains, what replaces Diesel fuel in this electric utopia? Anyone see an electric tractor trailer? Cargo ship? Yeah, me neither. So long as those ships burn 60,000 gallons of Diesel a day and there's no alternative we are stuck with fossil fuels whether our government likes it or not. Ultimately while they can certainly make it more expensive, and are, you can't stop using something you need when there's no alternative.
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When the oil runs out, how will they make power to charge all these electric cars?
I used to work in the oilfield industry. No predictions existed to claim we would run out. But, like TKO said, it may be harder to get it to the surface at a reasonable price.
I am banking on this huge, very deep oilfield that is sitting under my property for when the technology comes about to pump it out economically.
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MS wrote:
When the oil runs out, how will they make power to charge all these electric cars?
Nuclear power is the way to go. (Yes, I worked in the nuclear power industry for 30 years)
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We may have to get some real pony's
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BobE wrote:
MS wrote:
When the oil runs out, how will they make power to charge all these electric cars?
Nuclear power is the way to go. (Yes, I worked in the nuclear power industry for 30 years)
My grandfather who was a Navy vet who also worked for Delmarva Power for 30 years agreed. Yet the average age of our power producing reactors is 40 years. We became super paranoid after Chernobyl, and anyone in the industry can tell you that's just nonsense. The USSR had a TERRIBLE record with nuclear power, and what happened in Chernobyl was mostly operator error, and the result of a system when criticism wasn't allowed. There are actually still several RBMK reactors in service with a few changes made after Chernobyl, none of which has gone critical in the succeeding 40 years. .
I think this could fix our power situation at least short term. Hopefully we develop effective plasma fusion reactors eventually.
I wish there was a safe way to convert cargo ships, but unfortunately it would mean a lot of potential floating dirty bombs for terrorists to constantly try and hijack.
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I’ll never see it but I bet that hydrogen will be the go to fuel.
Last edited by Rudi (11/15/2022 2:56 PM)
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You's guyz are right!
6sally6
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Rudi wrote:
I’ll never see it but I bet that hydrogen will be the go to fuel.
It should be, but so long as people keep buying electric cars that technology is not being developed at the scale it should. Schwarzenegger is a big believer in this technology (he has a hydrogen powered Hummer) and created a bill to create "hydrogen highways", basically the infrastructure to distribute it in CA (a first in the US). The problem is that basically nothing had been done about it since he left office. Elon Musk has engaged in a smear campaign against hydrogen, because it would take market share from electrics. So, its really a bad situation we have now. All the major manufacturers are putting all of their eggs in the electric basket, even when everyone in the know knows its a dead end. Really all that would have to happen would be removing subsidies on electric vehicles and hydrogen would become attractive again, but with the fools currently running this nation who think electric is the way to go this isn't going to happen. Its really disappointing.
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So what is the cost to produce hydrogen in large quantity. Looking back many years as a science project DC current was needed to separate the H from the O in water.
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I think I remember hearing that natural gas is the main source for Hydrogen production. Steam-methane reforming?
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With the likes of California mandating electric vehicles, what do people think this will translate to elsewhere?
I understand all the malarkey going on with this stuff and certainly have my own views, but I do keep wondering if this agenda will eventually mean that we are severely penalised for owning a fossil fuel powered vehicle?
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Toploader wrote:
With the likes of California mandating electric vehicles, what do people think this will translate to elsewhere?
I understand all the malarkey going on with this stuff and certainly have my own views, but I do keep wondering if this agenda will eventually mean that we are severely penalised for owning a fossil fuel powered vehicle?
They won't touch the antiques. CA, etc. could have legislated them out of existence with emissions laws if they wanted, but rich, powerful people are also car guys, so that's not going to happen. If the fuel became absurd you could always just switch to ethanol. You need about 1/4 the radiator and you'll burn about 20% more, but you can run 13:1 compression without fear of detonating. You could make your own ethanol if you wanted. It has other excellent uses as well
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red351 wrote:
So what is the cost to produce hydrogen in large quantity. Looking back many years as a science project DC current was needed to separate the H from the O in water.
There are a bunch of ways to produce it. The good thing is most things on Earth contain hydrogen from water to organic material to fossil fuels. The question would be which method has the lowest environmental impact and cost. I believe most home producers still use electrolysis. Various steam reactions are another option though. There some good info here:
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Big OIL & the Wash. Clown Society will be the ones to decide what we get.........sorry.
I'm afraid we...."let the camel get his nose in the tent'... too long age to have much of a say-so in things.
Remember the Farmers & trucker's strikes back in the late 70's-early 80's?
When a woman was asked what were her plans if the farmers struck.... where would she get food for her family.....her reply was..
"It doesn't matter to me what they do....I get my food from the A&P....!"
I'm afraid society has only gotten worse since.
6s6
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6sally6 wrote:
When a woman was asked what were her plans if the farmers struck.... where would she get food for her family.....her reply was..
"It doesn't matter to me what they do....I get my food from the A&P....!"
I'm afraid society has only gotten worse since.
6s6
It is better not to think about how many voters are similar to her.
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That's a WHOLE other long and complicated affair to discuss. Would that voting alone was enough to fix things, but at this point I don't see it. There's too much entrenched ideology on both extremes coupled with consolidated power. Politicians were supposed to be short served, common men. Now they are neither. I've come to believe that the whole left v. right thing is really just gaslighting for the peasants. Once you start to see that the reality is us v. them it becomes both liberating and confounding at the same time.
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A little revolution...
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One of my favorite movies!
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