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  •  » Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

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    1/10/2023 11:10 PM  #1

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
    Registered: 7/14/2016
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    Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    I got this old battery charger working well this summer.
    Well, it let out some of the smoke out.

    Just as I expected, failed diodes and a couple of loose connections from factory wire terminals.

    This evening I was investigating what will be needed for repairs.

    I ended up with a couple of questions, after tear down.
    Keep in mind this is an old school battery charger with no ckt boards or capacitors for filtering DC output.

    There’s 4 levels of diodes with 6/level.
    2 levels are “negative “ up & 2 levels with “positive” up.
    From what I can determine, it is a 1/2 wave bridge rectifier…fine.

    Why the 2 levels?
    Assume all diodes are same amp rated ( no markings of course).
    For example 60 amps from one level….has to stay the same 60 amps going through second level.

    Filtering?
    Short ckt protection?  If one level has a short, second level still rectifies?

    Why not a full wave bridge rectifier?



    Last edited by Nos681 (1/10/2023 11:12 PM)

     

    1/11/2023 7:52 AM  #2

    Bullet Bob
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    From: Montrose, Colorado
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Sorry LT.  You lost me when you started talking about the rectum fryer.

    "you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
     

    1/11/2023 9:09 AM  #3

    RV6
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    From: Pine Junction, CO
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Bullet Bob wrote:

    Sorry LT.  You lost me when you started talking about the rectum fryer.

    Bwahahaha
     

    Gary Zilik - Pine Junction, Colorado - 67 Coupe, 289-4V, T5
     

    1/11/2023 9:29 AM  #4

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    I can’t tell from the pics on how many connections go to the diode pack, a FWB has four, two from line and Plus and minus. Probably asking to much for a schematic glued inside the box.
    Many years ago I had charger that had selenium rectifiers ( took up as room as a lunch pail).
    When they went kaput I replaced them with four industrial high amp diodes.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    1/11/2023 10:35 AM  #5

    BobE
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    My take on your questions ... 
     
    Filtering?  - I wouldn’t think it was for filtering.
    Short ckt protection?  If one level has a short, second level still rectifies? - My guess would be the same as yours, that in case one diode failed, the other would still work.  Although there is a fallacy in that logic as you won’t know the first one failed until the second also fails.
     
    Why not a full wave bridge rectifier? – because lead-acid batteries aren’t particular about handling voltage fluctuations, and it is less expensive to manufacturer.
     
    Do you have a wiring diagram of the unit?

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    1/11/2023 12:58 PM  #6

    rpm
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Como?

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    1/11/2023 1:24 PM  #7

    Rudi
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Bearing Bob wrote:

    Como?

     
    Perry?

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    1/11/2023 2:41 PM  #8

    Rudi
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Is the charger 6/12 volt. If so the coil may have 2 secondary windings.
    One set of diodes and windings  for each voltage.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    1/11/2023 3:50 PM  #9

    josh-kebob
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Bullet Bob wrote:

    Sorry LT.  You lost me when you started talking about the rectum fryer.

    Boy, bet that smells bad..............

     

    1/12/2023 12:31 AM  #10

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?











    This is what I could find online for this charger.
    The ammeter and the circuit breaker are swapped positions.

    Rudi, it is a 6v/12v charger.

    The diodes are in a full wave configuration with a center tap transformer.

    The “diode packs” are represented by a single diode on the schematic.

    I experimented this evening with installing a single Full Wave Bridge Rectifier (FWBR).
    I installed it in two different ways.  This is a molded case with ac input/dc output…only 4 connections.

    First, across full secondary winding with center tap floating (not connected).
    DC voltage was approximately double…as expected on all settings.

    Second, across center tap and one leg of secondary.
    DC voltage was similar to AC voltage…as expected.

    I was able to verify the xfmr was not damaged with all of these tests.
    Windings weren’t grounded or shorted.
    Would like to perform a turns ratio test for future reference and my curiosity.

    Permanent repair will be with higher amp diodes with higher voltage rating as well.
    I may have to fabricate a new mount, definitely worth it.

    I caught all sorts of “why” from my coworkers.
    Even the theory behind “the core being saturated.”😜
    That flew over my head in electrical school too.

    This is a simple manual battery charger that is still useful for my needs.

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/12/2023 10:21 AM  #11

    BobE
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    One other thought on the doubling up of diodes may be for heat dissipation when the charger is on “boost”.  Updating the diodes to a higher ratings should offer no issues, typically this is a simply not necessary, so manufacturers won’t spend additional costs that don’t offer any additional benefits.  

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    1/12/2023 11:07 AM  #12

    Nos681
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?



    Here is schematic I drew up.

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/12/2023 7:11 PM  #13

    wsinsle
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    It's possible the 2 packs of diodes in series are for if 1 shorts in the first pack all others paralleled with that one is shorted also. The second pack in series would keep it working if one in the first pack is shorted.  The only other thought would be reverse bias breakdown. Maybe, and I don't know, the high amp diodes back then may have a low reverse bias level. It may take 2 diodes in series to block the reverse bias pulse. That's just a guess.

    If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
     

    1/13/2023 9:07 AM  #14

    Steve69
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Have a fire extinguisher close by...LOL  

     

    1/13/2023 10:41 AM  #15

    BobE
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Nos681 – I hadn’t picked on this before but all these diodes conduct on the negative side of the sine wave.  Essentially, it is ‘one’ diode.  Are all the diodes the same current rating? 

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    1/13/2023 10:53 AM  #16

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?




    One click. Take your pick!

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    1/13/2023 1:04 PM  #17

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    MS…
    What would I learn from that? 😂
    That was my backup plan.

    BobE…
    The negative lead is connected in between the diode assemblies.
    I assembled the charger yesterday with the good set of diodes on the non-shorted set.
    I ran charger for about 4 hours with no problems.
    Don’t plan to use for starting purposes…I have different one for that.

    I didn’t find any markings, besides the orange to indicate polarity.
    Guessing maybe 10/15/20 amp diodes…???

    I use this manual charger for equalization charging.
    We are off-grid with battery and undersized solar.
    Generator and small inverter is my A/C source.
    That’s how the old farm house was setup for about 30+years now by previous owners.
    I call it a glorified camper without wheels.

    Most microprocessor controlled chargers will not allow that, unless you spend big bucks for a simple purpose.

    Wsinsle…
    Due to vintage of the charger, it is possible about the diodes.
    I know enough basic electronics.
    The rectifier pack was replaced in 1995, written on inside of cabinet.
    Probably time to update diodes for reliable future service.

       •Thread Starter
     

    1/13/2023 7:21 PM  #18

    KeithP
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    Registered: 6/10/2013
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    MS wrote:




    One click. Take your pick!

    I have several just like that one. Even has an AGM setting. works perfectly for me!

     

    1966, vert, 347 stroker, T5z, 4 wheel disc, pb, 3.70 LS 9", EPAS
     

    1/14/2023 12:41 PM  #19

    BobE
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    Re: Battery charger repair-investigation questions?

    Dan - Looks like you're good to go.

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

     

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