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2/04/2023 6:14 PM  #1


Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Take a look at these power curves.  The green and red lines are torque and power for a stock Ford truck cam and the blue and yellow lines are an E303 cam.  I am building this 393 for my 62 Galaxie (land yacht) and it has been my intention to build a low end torque max 5000RPM motor so the truck cam is still probably the best choice BUT I am second guessing the decision, thoughts? 


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
 

2/04/2023 6:32 PM  #2


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

My 331 with AFR 165 heads has an E-cam and pulls strong to 6500, and the torque curve feels dead flat, I have a 3.73 gear and 2.95 first gear,
I like the combination in the 58 coupe,
I too want to build a 393 or 408 torque monster at really low rpm for the f100 build so I’ll be interested in what you come up with.
But as an opinion to your question I don’t think the e-cam right for what you want.

 

2/04/2023 6:33 PM  #3


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

That was 68 coupe,

 

2/04/2023 7:04 PM  #4


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Just curious- what is your static compression ratio?

 

2/04/2023 7:24 PM  #5


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Cam-ology (dat a word?!) has come a LONG way since the "alphabet cams" were the go-to in SBF's.
IF that's what you have........then that's a different story.
1......with 393 cu. in. engine the LAST thing you need to be concerned with is low-end grunt.
2. why deliberately "strangle" the engine with a too short/to small cam?
3. stump-pulling low-end torque can be achieved with gears if that's the main issue.
4.great heads and healthy stroke screams for a camshaft to feed them at your desired RPM.
5. I'm a huge advocate of having a custom cam ground for a special engine.
      (with your 'brains' and experience and mechanical inventiveness DON'T ask some sales clerk to send you a..
        "Chevy-grind-made-for-a-Ford" bump stick!!)
6. I like......(anybody wanna guess ) a cam with NOT too much lift(save those springs & valvetrain)
    medium numbers on duration 230-240 duration @050 and LSA around 108*. Like Ed Iskendarian promotes. Power band from 1000-5500RPM.
7. Custom ground cams are the same price (or LESS)  than 'shelf grinds' (developed on GM engines!)

IF you already HAVE the 2 cams.....I would use the 303 E

6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/04/2023 7:45 PM  #6


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Bentworker wrote:

Just curious- what is your static compression ratio?

9.5:1


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

2/04/2023 8:16 PM  #7


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Sall, I am completely shocked that your answer is "more cam" 😂😂😂  I have the F4TE cam but not the E303.  I plugged in the numbers for the E303, Lunati  20350612 and a Voodoo cam.  The curve was very similar for the E303, Lunati, and Voodoo cams + or - 5 with the same basic RPM range.  I put up info for the E303 because it was available where the other two were backordered.  I am actually hoping for higher gear ratios to make this more of a cruiser.  My cam choices are limited by a max lift allowed by the heads of .550" According to my desktop dyno with stock heads and the F4TE cam the torque curve began falling hard about 3000 RPMS.  The improved flow of the heads i'm using got me an extra 1000 RPMs.  This may be a dumb question but where do you go for a custom cam grind?


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

2/04/2023 8:34 PM  #8


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Howard’s cams have a good cam selection process.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

2/05/2023 7:09 AM  #9


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Call Crane's tech department.  Give them all the information they ask you for.  Buy the cam they recommend.  Bottom line: the truck cam was designed for a truck.  It was also designed 20+ years ago and had a host of requirements it had to meet by which you are not bound.  The E cam was designed for a 5.0 Mustang.  It was also designed 20+ years ago and had to meet a host of requirements by which you are not bound.  IMO trying to pick a cam with what any of us know is about like any of us trying to perform surgery.  We know about enough to be dangerous.  Crane was the first to the aftermarket with Ford rollers.  They've logged millions of hours and miles on the dyno and track respectively.  I've had them select the cams for the last three engines I've built.  I've yet to be disappointed. 

 

2/05/2023 7:23 AM  #10


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Rudi wrote:

Howard’s cams have a good cam selection process.

I have a Howards Cam in my recent build...Have not cranked it yet.
 


Its really me....I fixed my caps lock .
 

2/05/2023 12:36 PM  #11


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Daze wrote:

Sall, I am completely shocked that your answer is "more cam" 😂😂😂  

 This may be a dumb question but where do you go for a custom cam grind?

I think......most all cam grinders will make a custom grind if you ask them (for the same money!)

     I'm a big fan of Delta Cams in Tacoma Wash.
Ken ...the phone guy... went waayyy above and beyond to help me.   ex. (when I needed to buy a set of new roller lifters he beat even Summit's price) Super advice and price!
 
Howard also does custom work. They were my second choice.
Lunati Cams also

When doing my research I looked at other cam company recommendations (there charts for SBF)
I also looked hard at dirt track cam grinds  because of (how they sound...naturally ) but also their need for quick acceleration in a short time period.
I wasn't interested in a curve that went from  xxxxRPM to 7500RPM
  I wanted something from just above idle RPM to 5500RPM...like a dirt car.
A tight LSA number 106*(dirt tracker) gives the instant RPM for coming off corners
           and max power down the straightaway.
Since I wasn't interested MAX full-on HP I lowered the lift  for valve train longivity,,,
and went with 108* LSA  to get a little better manners in traffic.
I THINK.........I "hit it outta the park" with...MY choice.YRMV
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

2/05/2023 3:47 PM  #12


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Most cam companies have dozens of grinds not listed in their catalogs too.  Go search for it and you won't even find it online, unless you know the part number.  I've actually never gotten a custom cam.  Crane always found one of those, I guess we would cal them "limited production" or "production off the books" cams.  Possibly I'm benefiting from someone else's custom cam, who knows.  At this point most every combination for a SBF that any of us are going to put together has likely already been built a couple dozen times.

Mike, a buddy of mine who was building a street strip car at a machine shop where he worked where the owner was a dirt track car builder told the owner he didn't know if he knew what he was doing picking a cam for the engine he was building because he didn't really know drag racing.  The owner didn't get mad or anything he just casually said "Son, what kind of racing do you think it is when those cars come off the corner into the straight?"
 

 

2/07/2023 3:10 PM  #13


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Here is my two-cents … what are your plans for the car?  How many times do you expect to be running over 3000, or 4000RPM; or even higher?  Is this a street cruiser, street terror, highway runner, racer, etc.? 
It all depends on how you plan to use the car.  Just guessing, but it seems to me, with the weight of the Galaxie, more lower end power (below 3000RPM) is where you’d be looking.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

2/07/2023 3:24 PM  #14


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Rear gear and tire size are also important factors.  More effective gear ratio will get it moving more quickly and spin the engine up faster. 

 

2/07/2023 6:11 PM  #15


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

BobE wrote:

Here is my two-cents … what are your plans for the car?  How many times do you expect to be running over 3000, or 4000RPM; or even higher?  Is this a street cruiser, street terror, highway runner, racer, etc.? 
It all depends on how you plan to use the car.  Just guessing, but it seems to me, with the weight of the Galaxie, more lower end power (below 3000RPM) is where you’d be looking.

That was exactly my thinking in picking the truck cam.  The car is a cruiser no drag racing or track racing AND it's a MT car one of only a few states where you can drive for over 767 miles and still be in the same state (Yaak to Belle Creek) and on both ends you still have a distance to go before you cross over into the next state.  In other words a car for LONG drives.  The current rear end is a 3.25:1 with a 2.95 1st T5 but 1st on the TKX is 3.35:1 so I will likely be putting the 3.0:1 that came in the car back in it.  I like 5th to be less than 2000 RPMs.  I realized the image I posted earlier was for a different cam.  This is the actual comparison between the F4TE truck cam and the E303  green and red truck blue and yellow E303

at 2000 RPM there is about 100 foot pound difference in torque between the two cams but with the E303 cam there is about 75 more max horse power.  interestingly enough I get to similar max torque numbers at different RPMS 3500 for the truck cam and 4000 for the E303.  I am kind of leaning toward the E303 BUT 100 foot pounds is a lot to leave behind at the lower RPMS.  I filled out comp cams cam picking questionnaire but have not yet heard back.  Once I get there recommendation I will put the specs in my dyno and see how it compares to the two Ford cams.


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

2/07/2023 9:16 PM  #16


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

What I see is how flat the truck cam is and I am betting that right off idle the truck cam difference is even more. Think about your gearing and where you spend the major your time. Cruising at 70-80mph the cam will be right at the torque peak which will be perfect.
My thoughts for my next motor is build it for how I drive 90% of the time vs 10% of the time.

 

2/07/2023 9:35 PM  #17


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

I am going to say none Daze.

If you just had a stock 351w or mild 357w…sure.

I think you might be missing out on additional torque tor the ol’ Gal.
An aftermarket camshaft doesn’t have to be radical to make torque in lower RPM’s.

 

2/08/2023 8:20 AM  #18


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Daze - you indicated "I like 5th to be less than 2000 RPMs"; at what MPH? 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

2/08/2023 4:29 PM  #19


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

BobE wrote:

Daze - you indicated "I like 5th to be less than 2000 RPMs"; at what MPH? 

I don't know, somewhere between 80 and 100


If it isn't broken...modify it anyway! http://www.DazeCars.com https://galaxieforum.boardhost.com
     Thread Starter
 

2/09/2023 12:28 AM  #20


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

6sally6 wrote:

Cam-ology (dat a word?!) has come a LONG way since the "alphabet cams" were the go-to in SBF's.
IF that's what you have........then that's a different story.
1......with 393 cu. in. engine the LAST thing you need to be concerned with is low-end grunt.
2. why deliberately "strangle" the engine with a too short/to small cam?
3. stump-pulling low-end torque can be achieved with gears if that's the main issue.
4.great heads and healthy stroke screams for a camshaft to feed them at your desired RPM.
5. I'm a huge advocate of having a custom cam ground for a special engine.
(with your 'brains' and experience and mechanical inventiveness DON'T ask some sales clerk to send you a..
"Chevy-grind-made-for-a-Ford" bump stick!!)
6. I like......(anybody wanna guess ) a cam with NOT too much lift(save those springs & valvetrain)
medium numbers on duration 230-240 duration @050 and LSA around 108*. Like Ed Iskendarian promotes. Power band from 1000-5500RPM.
7. Custom ground cams are the same price (or LESS) than 'shelf grinds' (developed on GM engines!)

IF you already HAVE the 2 cams.....I would use the 303 E

6sally6

Thats what I ended up with on my custom grind in my 289. 245 dur a@50, and a 108 LSA. It pulls hard with 280 butt gears and A C4
 


Slammed Big Blue, ran over the varmints that messed with the Stang. Now all is good in the NW
 

2/09/2023 2:46 PM  #21


Re: Based on these curves which camshaft would you pick?

Call someone that has built and dyno'd a lot of the 393 strokers to help select a cam. They will have the real world experience with making a cam choice. I think using either of the cams you have here would leave fall short considering the engine is about 12% bigger than it was. If the new heads and intake flow better than what Ford had, then the short fall in HP and Torque increases. 

What tire size are you running?
What is the ratio for your 5th gear? 


John  -- 67 Mustang Coupe 390 5 speed
 

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