Daze…this is my hair brained ideas.

Use the truck lower with injectors and fuel rail.
Remove as much of the divider walls between each port as possible.
Mount x2 Mustang throttle bodies (70mm would be my choice since only air flow) on custom adapter plate.

2 barrel 393w….serious.

Reason for removing walls is to allow distribution of air on intake strokes.
1-2-3-4 is not balanced and neither is 5-6-7-8.
I had looked into this as well.

Another throttle body to look at are the 2005+ with a rectangular mount and dual blades.
Especially stock ones that have been upgraded on someone’s project.

Might have to mill the stock flange down for additional clearance too.

I do like the regular carb sized base on the TBI’s.

Last edited by Nos681 (6/21/2023 2:32 PM)

Or.....you got's a lathe and a mill.  TB's can't be that difficult to make.  Similar project is on my very long list.  Also, I think you want as much plenum on top of that lower intake as you can reasonably get.  The was a guy named AT on here a few years ago, I think he lived near Corky, that made a 1" plenum on top of the lower and bolted on the TB.  He was running a "standard" 5.0 from a CV or TC, etc. and said it ran great.  That was an SD system witn not Maf involved. 
No doubt whatever that your's will run but are you running an SD system or are you going to get a MAF involved somehow?

BB1
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (6/21/2023 4:35 PM)

Since you are thinking outside the box check out a 87-96 dodge Dakota tbi.   Made by Holley.

These fit magnum 360 engines.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kEAFDZxow_4

Last edited by Greg B (6/21/2023 6:31 PM)

Daze wrote:

Nos681 wrote:

Daze…this is my hair brained idea.

Use the truck lower with injectors and fuel rail.
Remove as much of the divider walls between each port as possible.
Mount x2 Mustang throttle bodies (70mm would be my choice since only air flow) on custom adapter plate.

2 barrel 393w….serious.

Reason for removing walls is to allow distribution of air on intake strokes.
1-2-3-4 is not balanced and neither is 5-6-7-8.

Good thoughts, I like the carburetor look so I would much rather run the two TBIs (effectively a 4 barrel) than Mustang throttle buddies.   Also the TBIs are lower profile and hood clearance is still an issue.  I think two 302 70mm throttle bodies will be too much surface area at the throttle plate.  Comes in at  7696 mm squared.  My 4 43mm throttle plates  come in at 5808mm squared with all 4 added up.  

To check the TBI size (baseline) I took the OEM truck throttle bode plate sizes  and calculated the area then multiplied by 1.119 which is the increase in the displacement size between the 351 and the 393.  If I multiply the area of the truck throttle plates by the 1.119 basically increasing them at the same rate as the displacement increase that number is still 1.25 times smaller than the area of the 4 TBI plates so using that as a measuring stick the two TBIs should be about perfect.

I agree... sort of... with opening up the runners to share flow because as you pointed out there is no balance but it would be 1, 2, 5, and 6   and 3, 4, 7 and 8 instead of  "1-2-3-4 and 5-6-7-8  

I want to keep the runner length as long as possible to maximize torque so the "open plenum" will happen directly under the TBIs not at the lower intake and I will actually have 8 individual runners between the plenum under the TBIs and the truck intake.... at least that is how it is all coming together in my head 😂😂😂
 

 
I stand corrected about the cylinders.
Front and rear 1/2 not balanced, some of my thoughts from last year.

With removed dividers, this may allow the adapter plate/plenum to be shorter for hood clearance too.
I don’t think you’ll have any  torque loss issues with a 393w.

I understand the surface area dimensions if you are to have a wet intake manifold.
By keeping the injectors at the factory location at the ports, throttle body is a restriction in air flow path.
When I was contemplating this last year, I was also planning to use factory EECIV for “simplicity” for my case.

I do like the throttle body Raymond shared too.
I would run them as is with an adapter.
In video, looks a lot like their 2 barrel carb base.

Nos681 wrote:

I stand corrected about the cylinders.
Front and rear 1/2 not balanced, some of my thoughts from last year.

With removed dividers, this may allow the adapter plate/plenum to be shorter for hood clearance too.
I don’t think you’ll have any torque loss issues with a 393w.

I understand the surface area dimensions if you are to have a wet intake manifold.
By keeping the injectors at the factory location at the ports, throttle body is a restriction in air flow path.
When I was contemplating this last year, I was also planning to use factory EECIV for “simplicity” for my case.

I do like the throttle body Raymond shared too.
I would run them as is with an adapter.
In video, looks a lot like their 2 barrel carb base.

I wasn't specifically trying to correct on the cylinder banks just make sure we are on the same page, either way you are 100% correct that there is a balance issue requiring an open plenium somewhere.  The Dodge throttle bodies look good but I already have the Chevy ones and there doesn't seam to be a ton of difference.  I will post more as the project progresses

Steve69 wrote:

Looks like a modified Cobra Oval Air Cleaner might work...

That is the plan!!
 

John Ha wrote:

I like it!  Wondering if you'd want to leave both throttle position sensors in place so you can synchronize the throttle body openings with the linkage so both openings are the same throughout the throttle positions.  You'd only need to hook one TPS up to the computer though.

The way it is going to work (I think) is the throttle linkage arm on one is removed, the TPS on the other is removed, and the two shafts ends opened by removing those parts can now be coupled together as one shaft.  So the layout would be throttle linkage arm, two butterflies, coupler, two more butterflies and then a TPS on the other end.  The result is 4 butterflies that all open together and one TPS to tell the computer what the throttle is doing.
 

TKOPerformance wrote:

What computer are you planning to run this with?

Most likely terminator x but I also have a megasquirt  ECU if I decide to make it harder

Know anyone who dabbles in 3d printing and has the photography software to design up some manifold ideas?   That could be a useful tool to experiment and make some models of what might work.

Now that I'm thinking about it, I wonder if someone has already tried it.   Google here I come!

TKOPerformance wrote:

You'll need to be able to monkey with the TPS tables because the blade area is going to be so large that a tiny change in throttle angle is going to have an enormous effect on incoming airflow.  An off idle stumble would be my concern. 

I don't think it will be an issue.  The 4 blades area is only 25% bigger than the 351 truck TB blades when adjusted for the increased displacement.  With a bigger cam, and way better heads the demands of the motor will easily be 25% more... or at least close enough that the computer should easily adjust.
 

Does this apply to just a stock Mustang camshaft and stock displacement?

OK sooooo.......HOW do you tune it?! I don't even know anybody that "re-writes' programs
    (or whatever needs to be done to make FI run right with big cam/headers/bigger injectors)
Is it a 'big secret' that just a few "tuners"/Hondas with fart-can mufflers know how to do?
Is it............"IF ya got enough $$$ you can get your ECM re programmed!"
I HEAR 'about' how the  brain must be burned to make it all cook-together...I just don't know anybody that can!
Is the answer...........put it in a box and send it to California so some west-coast guru and burn-ya-a-new-one?!
(in more ways than one)
IF  FI is the way to go...
(and it looks like it is since most folks can't even spell carburator  much less work on one!)
then why.......is it still some sorta expensive black-magic only a few perform?!
What happens if this "black-magic-west coast computer program burner-guru" tweaks it to do this and I wanted a bigger cam/injector/better heads..whateverrrrr!!.....Snatch the brain back out and with a wad of cash send it to the above guru to RE-tweak it ??!
It looks like (TO ME!) this great switch to FI hot rods has gone from a fun * cool thang to do to your Mustang to*.....
throw up your hands and just PAY somebody to put it together fer ya !!
           (Maybe I am just showing my 50/60's mindset........ )

TKO.....Raymond.....Bullet Bob...you guys are at the top of the FI mods guyz....
can ya  'splain it like I'm a 74 year old?!

6sal6

6sally6 wrote:

OK sooooo.......HOW do you tune it?! I don't even know anybody that "re-writes' programs
(or whatever needs to be done to make FI run right with big cam/headers/bigger injectors)
Is it a 'big secret' that just a few "tuners"/Hondas with fart-can mufflers know how to do?
Is it............"IF ya got enough $$$ you can get your ECM re programmed!"
I HEAR 'about' how the brain must be burned to make it all cook-together...I just don't know anybody that can!
Is the answer...........put it in a box and send it to California so some west-coast guru and burn-ya-a-new-one?!
(in more ways than one)
IF FI is the way to go...
(and it looks like it is since most folks can't even spell carburator much less work on one!)
then why.......is it still some sorta expensive black-magic only a few perform?!
What happens if this "black-magic-west coast computer program burner-guru" tweaks it to do this and I wanted a bigger cam/injector/better heads..whateverrrrr!!.....Snatch the brain back out and with a wad of cash send it to the above guru to RE-tweak it ??!
It looks like (TO ME!) this great switch to FI hot rods has gone from a fun * cool thang to do to your Mustang to*.....
throw up your hands and just PAY somebody to put it together fer ya !!
(Maybe I am just showing my 50/60's mindset........ )

TKO.....Raymond.....Bullet Bob...you guys are at the top of the FI mods guyz....
can ya 'splain it like I'm a 74 year old?!

6sal6

It's not really all that much voodoo, and I think TKO makes it sound worse than it really is (no offense). The Ford EEC-IV mass air was (and still is in a lot of ways) a really robust system and pretty flexible. Swapping throttle bodies is really no big deal, I mean that was one of the 1st things to come off a stock car when we used to mess with them. Same for headers, injectors, and cams. Anyway there's lot's of folks who still do chip tuning, although most of the focus is on aftermarket EFI now. Aftermarket EFI is for sure more expensive, but is, after learning, quite a bit simpler to use and more straightforward. There's a couple of companies that have built "plug and play" systems based off the Megasquirt EFI system and they plug right in to the old 60 pin EEC-IV plug. Gives you all the benefits of an aftermarket EFI, but without the re-wiring hassle. 

Anyway, back to the original question, for someone who just wants a few things changed in an EEC-IV I'd look for an SCT dealer and have a chip burned  **or** you could look at something like a TwEECer, but to be honest at that point just go with one of the aforementioned plug and play units.  

Make sense?