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6/19/2023 8:36 PM  #1


odd EFI going ons

Took my car to town yesterday. About 4 miles, Finally got the afr gauge working, first sender quit after 1 trip. On the way in it read very lean, went past what the gauge would read. Would get a occasional backfire in the intake.
Stopped at my sons for 10 minutes, got back in and it ran fine after that. AFR gauge read between 14 and 15 the whole time i came back home. Even went out to the highway and put about 6 or 7 miles on it and it ran perfect. 
I have EECIV, Holley systemax intake, long tube headers with the o2 sensors in the collector as close as possible.
Any idea why it would run so lean when it is warming up? I replaced the temp sender last summer but it didn't change anything. 

 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
 

6/19/2023 8:48 PM  #2


Re: odd EFI going ons

What thermostat do you have? What was the engine temp when it was acting up vs when it was happy? It should run a good bit richer when warming up (open loop) and then lean out when it goes in to closed loop. 

 

6/20/2023 4:35 AM  #3


Re: odd EFI going ons

A couple thoughts:

1.) What's your fuel pressure?  Should be 39-42psi with the vacuum line disconnected.

2.) 14-15 A/F ratio would still be considered lean during many operating conditions.  That's what you would want on a light load cruise.  During acceleration it should be richer than that (12.5ish).  On start up it will also be richer, especially when the engine is cold (could be as low as 8 in the winter).

3.) Has it been sitting?  The ethanol in today's fuel has a nasty habit of causing injectors to stick if a vehicle sits for too long.  When in doubt run some Seafoam through it. 
 

 

6/20/2023 5:05 AM  #4


Re: odd EFI going ons

Does it do this when cold only?

Does the AFR gauge O2 sensor have a heater (3 or 4 wires)?

 

6/20/2023 5:17 AM  #5


Re: odd EFI going ons

 i have a 180 degree thermostat
I usually start the car at least once a week. 
I will have to get a gauge on the fuel pressure, might be a trick to hook up, since the intake covers most of the fuel rail.
I will get some Seafoam
It only does this when it is cold although it was doing it when the temp gauge was about 150. 
Afr has a heated O2 sensor


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

6/20/2023 6:53 AM  #6


Re: odd EFI going ons

First of all, is this something new?  Has it always behaved this way since the build?
Also, you need a 195 degree Stat.  That's what the EEC-IV system was designed to run with.  It wants 180 + on the ECT for normal operation.  With a 180 stat the ECT is going to see low temps all the time.
Funny you came up with this at this time.  The Heap has been running great since I scrapped all my "Hot Rod" inclinations and went back to mostly stock.  But every once in a while it will fail to go into closed loop and the AFR gauge indicates a lean 16 - 18 condition.  If I let it run like that it will turn on the MIL and drop codes indicating both HEGOs are not switching, Lean.  Quite by accident I discovered that if I give it a shot of hard throttle it immediately goes into closed loop, runs 14 to 15 cruising around town and goes rich under hard acceleration....just what it is supposed to do.  So...what could cause this?  After noodling it for a couple of months I decided that it almost has to be a fuel pressure regulator issue.  Changed it yesterday....report to follow.

BB1
 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

6/20/2023 11:08 AM  #7


Re: odd EFI going ons

Ya know...........some people refer to a carb as a 'controlled-leak' !
Jus say'in........
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

6/20/2023 4:13 PM  #8


Re: odd EFI going ons

6sally6 wrote:

Ya know...........some people refer to a carb as a 'controlled-leak' !
Jus say'in........
6sally6

Been there done that.
Didn't like it, (more like the wife didn't like it)


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

6/20/2023 6:48 PM  #9


Re: odd EFI going ons

I have following:

stock foxbody fuel rail
stock pressure regulator
192/195 thermostat
stock calibration ECM (NAPA remanufactured)
stock intake manifold with inlet opened up to 70mm
stock Mass Air Flow sensor 60mm

Oxygen sensors are in midway of header collector where they merge and the flange.

The F150 runs great on the Holley carb and Duraspark ignition.
It doesn’t reek of gas either.

Last edited by Nos681 (6/20/2023 6:53 PM)

 

6/21/2023 8:00 AM  #10


Re: odd EFI going ons

I love the smell of gasoline in the morning.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

6/21/2023 8:26 AM  #11


Re: odd EFI going ons

Bearing Bob wrote:

I love the smell of gasoline in the morning.

 
I can remember as a kid touching and sniffing the weeping dash gas gauge on my dads model “A”
Today’s gas don’t smell as good as the gas in days of yore!


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

6/22/2023 8:03 PM  #12


Re: odd EFI going ons

Got the coupe out again tonight. Been reluctant to do so since we got new rock on the half mile i have to go before the blacktop. I have a cold air intake with an open air K&N type filter on it. Experimented with blocking the front half of it tonight. Seemed to help, only got one little backfire once i got to the blacktop. Also tried starting the car, run it about a minute and restarting it. That also seemed to help according to the readings on the AFR gauge. 
I ordered an intake air temp sensor tonight. Was not getting any codes for it, but I figure i have to start somewhere.

 

Last edited by Alan (6/22/2023 8:04 PM)


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

6/23/2023 6:19 AM  #13


Re: odd EFI going ons

Where is the air filter?  Could it be picking up air currents from the cooling fan?  It took us years to figure that out on Fox body cars. 

 

6/24/2023 6:56 AM  #14


Re: odd EFI going ons



This is the Spectre filter I have been using.
It has a center inlet too.

Last edited by Nos681 (6/24/2023 6:56 AM)

 

6/24/2023 7:26 AM  #15


Re: odd EFI going ons

You might try rigging up a shroud to shield it from the air currents from the fan.  Turns out there was a reason Ford put the filter in an airbox on the Fox cars.  We discovered the air currents from the fan were negatively effecting the idle and transition throttle.  A shield solved it, or we would move the air cleaner to the inner fender (though this necessitated a recalibrated MAF, or later we learned to fix the various tables with tuning). 

 

6/24/2023 2:24 PM  #16


Re: odd EFI going ons

I think i have some of the problems narrowed a little. Something is wrong in the fuel circuit. Drove to town, same problems, backfires at 2000 rpm in 3rd gear. Parked it and came back out of store and it would not start. Tried 3 or 4 times, nothing. Listened, and could tell the fuel pump not running. Waited a minute or two and turned the switch and the fuel pump ran. Started and headed home. Ran like crap. Engine light came on. Read the codes KOEO and had 95 Fuel pump secondary circuit failure. 41 hego's indicate lean.
I do have a 70 mm TB and am guessing that is also part of the problem.

 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

6/24/2023 2:47 PM  #17


Re: odd EFI going ons

If the engine is basically stock a 70mm TB is too big.  Stock I believe is only 55mm.  The old Motorsports TBs were 65mm and worked well without needing to mess with anything (though it was a good idea to gasket match the hole in the upper). 

 

6/24/2023 3:40 PM  #18


Re: odd EFI going ons

i may have to double check the Thottle body. Been awhile since i put it together.

Little too warm and muggy to work on it this afternoon. AC feels pretty good right now.

 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

6/24/2023 9:09 PM  #19


Re: odd EFI going ons

With a code 95, I would inspect wiring at fuel pump relay, inertia switch, and fuel pump.
Verify voltage is steady while moving wire harness.
Check ground connection for fuel pump too.

I have a 70 mm throttle body and stock 60 mm MAF.
The opening on intake was made to match 70 mm throttle body.
Using a stock remanufactured Napa A9L.

When my factory A9L failed, the fuel pump never cycled on at start up.

 

6/24/2023 9:11 PM  #20


Re: odd EFI going ons

 

7/06/2023 7:42 PM  #21


Re: odd EFI going ons

I think i found the source of most of the problems i am having.


Feel kind of dumb taking so long to find it. Started spraying carb cleaner on everything till it sped up, and there it was.
Haven't had a chance to test drive it yet, but the AFR readings are a lot more in line with what i think they should be.
 


67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     Thread Starter
 

7/06/2023 9:38 PM  #22


Re: odd EFI going ons

Bearing Bob wrote:

I love the smell of gasoline in the morning.

 
Ave Gas


70, ragtop 351W/416 stroker Edel Performer heads w pro flow 4, Comp roller 35-421-8. T5
 

7/06/2023 10:07 PM  #23


Re: odd EFI going ons

HudginJ3 wrote:

Bearing Bob wrote:

I love the smell of gasoline in the morning.

 
Ave Gas

 
Could be a source of my issues but as a kid I liked the smell of carbon tetrachloride!


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

Board footera


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