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9/05/2023 4:06 PM  #1


Short Help

64.5, 289, C4, PS, Air. I don't drive my Mustang often simply because I don't drive much since I have retired and have several cars. Anyway, it seems I am always buying a battery and noticed the last couple times my Mustang would not turn over so I suspected a short. Previously I had a switch problem which ended up to be a wire from the switch where I ended up running a new wire instead of pulling the old out and replacing, it was just easier for me because it got stuck somewhere under the dash. I don't do the pretzel thing as well as I use to. I also replaced a radio in the last several months.

I charged the battery and it came back to around 10.5 volts so I assume it is time for another battery but I did pull the negative battery cable and checked from it to the neg. terminal and got a reading of 9.5 volts. I think that would indicate something is bleeding off my battery fairly quickly or am I mistaking. If I am not, it is more than simply looking through my fuse box for a drain but I am not sure where to look or what might cause such a draw if that is the case. Any suggestions to narrow down the problem would be appreciated or direction to move in. I also noticed at the starter solenoid small screw I got a reading of .6 volts. Not sure if there should be any voltage there when the car is not turned on or not.
Thanks,
Randy

 

9/06/2023 6:19 AM  #2


Re: Short Help

Never having been around a 64.5, I'm not sure if they had a hydraulic stop lite switch at the MC.  Butt  (TS&T), if it does that's the first place I would check.  Back in 64-65 when I was a "highly trained auto electrician" at Sears and Sawbuck, I bet I replaced a dozen of those on various cars over a couple of years.  Some times they will actually keep the brake lites on but not always.  I've seen  a number of them fail and pass just enough current to run the battery down over a few days but not enough to heat up the brake lite filaments.  If that isn't it then try the courtesy lights if you have them, then horn circuit.  Also, as I recall, the voltage regulator on the old generator systems can fail and keep power going to the field circuit. 
Chasing sneaky shorts to ground is a real pain so I hope this helps.

BB1
 

Last edited by Bullet Bob (9/06/2023 6:20 AM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

9/06/2023 6:20 AM  #3


Re: Short Help

I think I would first start by pulling one fuse at a time, then move to alternator and voltage regulator and if you have a modern radio check that. Good luck

 

9/06/2023 7:07 AM  #4


Re: Short Help

A fully charged healthy battery should read about 12.6 volts.  They call, then 12V, but they are really 12.6 (6 cells of 2.1 volts each).  IME anything showing 12+ volts sitting static is healthy, provided it passes a load test.  Older batteries will start to drop some voltage as they age.  You might be able to throw them on a charger and get them back to 12.6V, but after sitting for a day or so they will drop back to somewhere around !2. 

To test for a parasitic draw you should check amperage (not voltage) between the negative cable and battery post with the cable removed.  Anything over 50mA is too much and indicates a draw somewhere.  Once you see what your draw is you can start trying to pinpoint it.  Pulling fuses is a good way to find the circuit causing the draw.
 

 

9/06/2023 8:26 AM  #5


Re: Short Help

I agree with BB, the hydraulic brake light switch is a known problem, if it is dark enough, one can see the brake taillights slightly glowing w/o applying the brakes.
Also, if you have a modern radio with 'preset' radio stations, and/or a clock, it uses battery power to maintain the stations and time.  Over time it will run down the battery if the engine hasn't been run.


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

9/06/2023 9:47 AM  #6


Re: Short Help

The potential for the radio to draw down the battery depends on the radio.  My car can sit for months (my WRX is the same) and the battery is barely effected.  I would think that either the draw is so incredibly low that its inconsequential, or that manufacturers finally got smart and started saving those presets to some kind of memory which doesn't require power. 

 

9/06/2023 10:10 AM  #7


Re: Short Help

Which wire did you bypass under the dash? Sounds like you may have bypassed the resistance wire that feeds the coil?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/06/2023 1:06 PM  #8


Re: Short Help

TKOPerformance wrote:

A fully charged healthy battery should read about 12.6 volts.  They call, then 12V, but they are really 12.6 (6 cells of 2.1 volts each).  IME anything showing 12+ volts sitting static is healthy, provided it passes a load test.  Older batteries will start to drop some voltage as they age.  You might be able to throw them on a charger and get them back to 12.6V, but after sitting for a day or so they will drop back to somewhere around !2. 

To test for a parasitic draw you should check amperage (not voltage) between the negative cable and battery post with the cable removed.  Anything over 50mA is too much and indicates a draw somewhere.  Once you see what your draw is you can start trying to pinpoint it.  Pulling fuses is a good way to find the circuit causing the draw.
 

This^^^^ is where I like to use a test light. (with the door closed or tape the courtesy light in ) and everything off...... start pulling fuses until the light goes off. "there's ya sign" !
6sally6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

9/06/2023 8:26 PM  #9


Re: Short Help

As mentioned, with 4 cars I always think I just bought a battery and probably did for one car or another. Found the record and the Mustang battery's warranty ran out a year ago. After charging it two days ago it is still holding the 10.6 volts that it came up to. Checked the Amps as suggested by TKO and it showed 5.6 mA from ground cable to neg. battery terminal. So, it the draw not enough to worry about and it's just time to replace the battery?
I am still confused why it would show voltage (9.6v) from the ground cable to the neg. battery terminal. My mind tells me if nothing is turned on, the circuit should not be completing. What am I missing here?

     Thread Starter
 

9/06/2023 8:34 PM  #10


Re: Short Help

Didn't have the car door open while performing the test, did you?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

9/07/2023 6:13 AM  #11


Re: Short Help

rap wrote:

As mentioned, with 4 cars I always think I just bought a battery and probably did for one car or another. Found the record and the Mustang battery's warranty ran out a year ago. After charging it two days ago it is still holding the 10.6 volts that it came up to. Checked the Amps as suggested by TKO and it showed 5.6 mA from ground cable to neg. battery terminal. So, it the draw not enough to worry about and it's just time to replace the battery?
I am still confused why it would show voltage (9.6v) from the ground cable to the neg. battery terminal. My mind tells me if nothing is turned on, the circuit should not be completing. What am I missing here?

If its only holding 10.5 volts then its definitely time for a battery.  The final verdict could come from a load test, read the voltage and then have someone try to start the engine and see what happens to the voltage.  I've seen batteries which showed 12V drop to below 9 when the starter was engaged.  This indicates the the battery has no real reserve capacity left.

The voltage reading between the post and the terminal is confusing to me as well, but I've also never tried that test.  I always test the amperage.  One thing you might try is to check resistance through the negative cable.  You should see like 0.01 Ohm per foot.  Sometimes those cables get corroded inside the insulation where you can't see it and cause issues because the resistance is very high, but the cable externally looks good.  This is why I prefer solder on terminals to crimp on.  I think the crimp leaves space where corrosion can begin, whereas the solder seals the end of the cable. 

Last edited by TKOPerformance (9/07/2023 6:14 AM)

 

9/07/2023 7:22 AM  #12


Re: Short Help

I should have mentioned to check that the glove box light isn't on all the time, and any trunk, or underhood, light that may be installed. 
Regarding charging the battery for two days: 
When you checked the voltage was the charger still attached?
If the charger wasn't attached, how long after it was disconnected was the battery voltage checked?

Check the charger voltage without it being connected to the battery to verify the charger is working properly.
If this is OK, check it with the battery connected, if the voltage is at the 10.6 volt range, seems like you've got a shorted cell in the battery, and it should be replaced. 
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

9/09/2023 7:05 AM  #13


Re: Short Help

rap wrote:

I am still confused why it would show voltage (9.6v) from the ground cable to the neg. battery terminal. My mind tells me if nothing is turned on, the circuit should not be completing. What am I missing here?

Do you have a more modern radio with memory? That would explain the 5.6ma draw and the 9.6 volts.
 


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