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I am not talking about the china rails, I use "the right stuff" there every time. I am thinking more like in between an EFI upper and lower? On my Frankenstein EFI I can easily use a Ford truck 5.8 EFI upper to lower intake gasket but between the my mid plate and the factor intake, but that option is less doable between the mid plate and top plate because of the open plenum. I could modify a 5.8 gasket to match the plenum but I think I would rather glue it on with "the right stuff" Thoughts?
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Between the aluminum plates, you could machine a groove for roll rubber “o-ring” material.
Where they butt together, a small dab of silicone or adhesive.
This way, you can always take it apart without having to damage the mating surfaces.
Might want to make a couple of pockets for your screwdriver to separate the two plates in future too.
Perhaps in not so visible location to take away from your art work.
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Nos681 wrote:
Between the aluminum plates, you could machine a groove for roll rubber “o-ring” material.
Where they butt together, a small dab of silicone or adhesive.
This way, you can always take it apart without having to damage the mating surfaces.
Might want to make a couple of pockets for your screwdriver to separate the two plates in future too.
Perhaps in not so visible location to take away from your art work.
I was actually thinking about machining a groove in one of the two pieces, however, instead of using an O-ring (might be hard to find the exact size) , I was thinking of filling the groove with “right stuff“ either way, if I’m going to use “glue”, your idea about the screwdriver pockets is BRILLIANT! Thanks
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'Right Stuff'......is it better than blue RTV. ? (or a better advertising campaign !?) Jus ax'en
6sally6
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6sally6 wrote:
'Right Stuff'......is it better than blue RTV. ? (or a better advertising campaign !?) Jus ax'en
6sally6
It’s amazing, way better than RTV. Actual experience not just info from some random guy on the internet 😁
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With a small groove, it should work great. Will there be gas going through the intake, or just air? If gas, I would be concerned.
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I have made a lot of o rings out of similar material and never had a failure. To make the seal, I cut the ends of the material on a diagonal (opposite diagonals on each end), overlap the diagonally cut ends, add the right stuff, and you have a seal. The operating pressures for my application ranged from 35 to 65 psi.
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This is pretty much what they use for all gaskets now. The idea is they are reusable. OEMs simply mold the gasket to the application, but IME they work very well.
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I've made some experiments using my 3D printer and made a couple of gaskets using ThermoPlastic Polyurethane filament.
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Daze – IMO, if the surfaces are truly flat, a little silicone, ‘Right Stuff’, etc. should provide enough to seal the joint. This assumes the plate is torqued down without any distortion of the plate, or manifold.
Haken – very nice!
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That is the stuff I use to seal the lower units of the old 50's Johnson outboards I restore, in 1/8" dia. Works great.
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BobE wrote:
Daze – IMO, if the surfaces are truly flat, a little silicone, ‘Right Stuff’, etc. should provide enough to seal the joint. This assumes the plate is torqued down without any distortion of the plate, or manifold.
Haken – very nice!
Agree a thin coat of silicone would seal it, BUT its a mess to clean up if you have to take it apart. I think that was the idea of the o-ring style gasket. No mess and except for the butt joint nothing to redo on reassembly.
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Ron68 wrote:
That is the stuff I use to seal the lower units of the old 50's Johnson outboards I restore, in 1/8" dia. Works great.
how do you prep the surface? are you cutting groove? what do you do where the ends meet?
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The 'do-it-yo-self' O-rings .......NOT onion ! Hmmmmmmmmm!!
That sorta resembles how the "Big-Boyz" cut grooves in their super charger hemi heads and use copper wire for O-rings...
(again...not onions )
I doubt the pressure will be great enough butt-still a nice touch'e...
6sal6
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Daze wrote:
Ron68 wrote:
That is the stuff I use to seal the lower units of the old 50's Johnson outboards I restore, in 1/8" dia. Works great.
how do you prep the surface? are you cutting groove? what do you do where the ends meet?
The lower half of the lower unit has a groove cut in it that ends on either side where the bearing housing for the output shaft rests. I cut the cord about 1/8" long at the ends. The upper half of the lower unit is flat and when the lower half is bolted on, the groove (about 3/32" wide and 1/16" deep allows the cord to expand and fill the groove. I hold the cord in place with some Permatex #3 liquid gasket sealant. FYI - here is a link to a parts manual for a 1956 10 hp Johnson. Page 16 shows the seal (20) and the lower unit assy. You can see how it is installed in the groove.
Link:
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Daze wrote:
Ron68 wrote:
That is the stuff I use to seal the lower units of the old 50's Johnson outboards I restore, in 1/8" dia. Works great.
how do you prep the surface? are you cutting groove? what do you do where the ends meet?
Like Nos681 said, scarf cut the ends where they meet and add a dab of silicone. Some seals in automatic transmissions are like that from the factory and work without the use of sealer.
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If RTV does the job where the ends of that seal meet, why not just use it for the entire seal. The beauty of RTV is you install it wet and then it doesn’t spend the next twenty years trying to squeeze out of the compressed area it is in.
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I would suggest the Permatex Ultra Gray without machining a groove.
I used it on my axle seal surface when a gasket wasn’t available. No issues and still holding.
I learned something from Steve.
Last edited by Nos681 (12/02/2023 10:54 AM)
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MS wrote:
If RTV does the job where the ends of that seal meet, why not just use it for the entire seal. The beauty of RTV is you install it wet and then it doesn’t spend the next twenty years trying to squeeze out of the compressed area it is in.
To me it would depend on how often you would need to take it apart. If the answer is basically never, then no reason not to use RTV. If its something you may need to remove semi-frequently cleaning up the RTV is a mess. Using RTV for an oil pan, intake to the block, etc. makes sense; those should never need to come apart. If it was say upper to lower intake on a 5.0 I wouldn't use it because there are times when servicing certain parts of the engine are at least easier after removing the upper.
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I do not understand the part about hard to clean up. I have never had any problems using single swipe with a sharp wood chisel to clean the stuff off. And on intakes and pans, a cup wire brush on my hand grinder makes it super clean really quick. And, Ford sells a RTV remover spay that works super to dissolve it.
But, my main thought is that I want the best stuff to put something together with, not the easiest to take it apart. I put stuff together with the intent that it will stay together. If something has to come apart, I will deal with that at the time.
I understand some parts like upper intakes need to get removed occasionally, but I just use a good FelPro gasket for stuff like that, with no sealer on it. Same as a carb gasket.
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MS wrote:
I do not understand the part about hard to clean up. I have never had any problems using single swipe with a sharp wood chisel to clean the stuff off. And on intakes and pans, a cup wire brush on my hand grinder makes it super clean really quick. And, Ford sells a RTV remover spay that works super to dissolve it.
But, my main thought is that I want the best stuff to put something together with, not the easiest to take it apart. I put stuff together with the intent that it will stay together. If something has to come apart, I will deal with that at the time.
I understand some parts like upper intakes need to get removed occasionally, but I just use a good FelPro gasket for stuff like that, with no sealer on it. Same as a carb gasket.
I have to say that I'm also a little confused regarding cleaning up RTV as I've also never had any issues removing. I typically use a razor scrapper where I can't rub it off with my finger.
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BobE wrote:
MS wrote:
I do not understand the part about hard to clean up. I have never had any problems using single swipe with a sharp wood chisel to clean the stuff off. And on intakes and pans, a cup wire brush on my hand grinder makes it super clean really quick. And, Ford sells a RTV remover spay that works super to dissolve it.
But, my main thought is that I want the best stuff to put something together with, not the easiest to take it apart. I put stuff together with the intent that it will stay together. If something has to come apart, I will deal with that at the time.
I understand some parts like upper intakes need to get removed occasionally, but I just use a good FelPro gasket for stuff like that, with no sealer on it. Same as a carb gasket.I have to say that I'm also a little confused regarding cleaning up RTV as I've also never had any issues removing. I typically use a razor scrapper where I can't rub it off with my finger.
Plus, if you don’t apply an extra tube’s worth where a paper thin layer will do, there is virtually nothing to clean up.
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Okay, I see the issue, you are translating a pain to clean up as "hard to remove". Its not hard to remove; its a pain to clean up. Given the choice I'd rather not have to clean it up. I'd always rather have a reusable gasket provided sealing is equal. This is why I don't use RTV on rears anymore when a LubeLocker is available. I've never had a problem getting RTV off. Soak it in the parts washer overnight and it usually mostly falls off.
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Another option…flat sheets of gasket material in desired thickness and install it dry after cut to desired shape.
Make template or a second gasket for future use.
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