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  •  » FYI Ford, Classic Mustang Tech Discussion
  •  » TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

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    12/07/2023 3:14 PM  #26

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
    Posts: 6,739

    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    boss347convertible wrote:

    I let the clutch out and hit the starter at the same time, and to my relief, the car started. Car would not have started with just the date's efforts.
     

    I'm gonna store that away in my 'brang-cell-locker' for future use...(IF I can remember it at the time.)
    I do have a start switch I can spin the engine over AND THEN engage the ignition system.
    That works pretty good when the engine is hot and the battery wants to get a little sluggish.
    Good inflammation !!!
    6sally6
     

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    12/07/2023 4:22 PM  #27

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    It works the other way too.  You can use the starter to move the car so long as you've got a good battery and you don't do it for long enough to get anything hot.  Well, so long as the engine isn't locked up anyway. 

     

    12/07/2023 6:04 PM  #28

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
    Registered: 7/14/2016
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    Like a broken crankshaft?

     

    12/08/2023 6:49 AM  #29

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    Nos681 wrote:

    Like a broken crankshaft?

    No.  Why?
     

     

    12/08/2023 9:14 AM  #30

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
    Registered: 4/04/2013
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    I should have included that with a neutral switch, one can still engage to starter from outside the car (with trans in neutral), with a clutch switch, one needs to depress the clutch pedal, which means having to sit in the car.   
    And yes, forward along the Ron Frances wiring diagram. 

    Last edited by BobE (12/08/2023 9:16 AM)

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    12/08/2023 10:04 AM  #31

    Rufus68
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    From: Knoxville, TN
    Registered: 4/26/2017
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    BobE wrote:

    I should have included that with a neutral switch, one can still engage to starter from outside the car (with trans in neutral), with a clutch switch, one needs to depress the clutch pedal, which means having to sit in the car.  

    I agree that if anyone were to install a clutch switch that they should pair it with a Neutral switch.  For most of us, I'm sure neither switch is the preferred configuration. 

    Regarding a Neutral only switch, it makes those moments when a bad clutch release at a busy intersection kills the engine a little more awkward for quickly restarting and continuing.  I'm certain this doesn't apply to anyone reading this forum.

     

    1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
     

    12/08/2023 9:44 PM  #32

    wsinsle
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    From: Belle Vernon, PA
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    I'm not sure how PAINLESS does it but I have American Auto Wire (AAW). My guess is they are similar They have a wire from the start switch to the (Neutral Safety Switch) NSS . Then from the NSS to the start solenoid. Tie them 2 together and it will work. No NSS in volved.  . 

    If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
     

    12/09/2023 1:37 PM  #33

    Mark in CA
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    From: Wickenburg, AZ
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 52

    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    wsinsle wrote:

    I'm not sure how PAINLESS does it but I have American Auto Wire (AAW). My guess is they are similar They have a wire from the start switch to the (Neutral Safety Switch) NSS . Then from the NSS to the start solenoid. Tie them 2 together and it will work. No NSS in volved.  . 

    Thanks for your input. Sounds like both harnesses are the same. I did splice the two together and then ran the wire to the S post on the relay (not sure if I need to do that or not). I’m going to remove the NSS from the trans and plug the inlet just to clean it up. 

       •Thread Starter
     

    12/10/2023 7:19 AM  #34

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    Mark in CA wrote:

    wsinsle wrote:

    I'm not sure how PAINLESS does it but I have American Auto Wire (AAW). My guess is they are similar They have a wire from the start switch to the (Neutral Safety Switch) NSS . Then from the NSS to the start solenoid. Tie them 2 together and it will work. No NSS in volved.  . 

    Thanks for your input. Sounds like both harnesses are the same. I did splice the two together and then ran the wire to the S post on the relay (not sure if I need to do that or not). I’m going to remove the NSS from the trans and plug the inlet just to clean it up. 

    Not sure the size of that switch, but when I've plugged switch holes in T5s and T56s before I used an oil drain plug I found at NAPA that had the correct thread.  T56s from F bodies used this stupid skip shift solenoid which basically made you shift from 1st to 4th if you weren't at WOT.  It was controlled by the ECM, so in a swap situation you either had to wire a way to bypass it or remove it.  I'd always remove it and plug the hole with a drain plug.  Can't remember the size, but just take the switch to the store and match it up. 

     

    12/10/2023 2:50 PM  #35

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    Mark in CA wrote:

    wsinsle wrote:

    I .  . 

    . 

    .  T56s from F bodies used this stupid skip shift solenoid which basically
        made you shift from 1st to 4th if you weren't at WOT. .

     

    How zat work with a manual trans ?!
    Never heard this before........
    6sally6
     

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    12/10/2023 3:36 PM  #36

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    6sally6 wrote:

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    Mark in CA wrote:


    . 

    .  T56s from F bodies used this stupid skip shift solenoid which basically
    made you shift from 1st to 4th if you weren't at WOT. .

     

    How zat work with a manual trans ?!
    Never heard this before........
    6sally6
     

    It interferes with the shift shaft inside the trans so that when you pull the shifter back to engage what you think is going to be 2nd gear it kicks it into the 3/4 gate and you are forced into 4th gear.  Its exactly as obtrusive and annoying as it sounds. 

     

    12/12/2023 9:53 AM  #37

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    Nos681 wrote:

    Steve69 wrote:

    Nos681 wrote:

    I edited your picture Mark to clarify the wiring as TKO mentioned.

    The “neutral” switch on the T5 was used only for the ECM for neutral indication.
    I have read of many failures due to running full start solenoid current through this switch.

    The actual “neutral safety switch” on the Foxbody Mustang was actually 2 switches under the dash…one for ECM (parallel to the transmission neutral indicator switch) and one for start circuit (start solenoid).

    Just wanted to prevent someone else reading this from getting corn fused.
    Sounds like a nice upgrade.

    Whats the box where the 4 wires are connected too?

     
    Relay.

    Conversion from C4 to T5, I installed a jumper as well.

       Thanks
     

     

    12/12/2023 11:56 AM  #38

    6sally6
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    6sally6 wrote:

    TKOPerformance wrote:


    .  T56s from F bodies used this stupid skip shift solenoid which basically
    made you shift from 1st to 4th if you weren't at WOT. .

     

    How zat work with a manual trans ?!
    Never heard this before........
    6sally6
     

    It interferes with the shift shaft inside the trans so that when you pull the shifter back to engage what you think is going to be 2nd gear it kicks it into the 3/4 gate and you are forced into 4th gear.  Its exactly as obtrusive and annoying as it sounds. 

    (.......I'm  from the government...and here to "help you" / protect you from yourself  kind of thang )
    6sal6 

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    12/12/2023 3:34 PM  #39

    TKOPerformance
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    From: Newark, DE
    Registered: 12/15/2014
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    6sally6 wrote:

    TKOPerformance wrote:

    6sally6 wrote:


    How zat work with a manual trans ?!
    Never heard this before........
    6sally6
     

    It interferes with the shift shaft inside the trans so that when you pull the shifter back to engage what you think is going to be 2nd gear it kicks it into the 3/4 gate and you are forced into 4th gear.  Its exactly as obtrusive and annoying as it sounds. 

    (.......I'm from the government...and here to "help you" / protect you from yourself kind of thang )
    6sal6 

    Allegedly it was something they used to increase fuel economy.  But yeah, pretty much. 
     

     

    12/16/2023 9:18 AM  #40

    Glens 1965 50
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    From: Tomball,Tx
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 278

    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    We just wired an AAW harness in a 66 with the relay and also a micro switch on the clutch pedal so you can start it in gear with the pedal depressed.  It's for a fellas wife so he wanted the safety item since his wife has not driven a stick shift in many moons.  But i do remember someone at the Bash I hosted almost squishing some of us when he tried to start the car in gear when we were in the shop.

     

    12/17/2023 10:26 AM  #41

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,156

    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    If somebody tries to start my TKO600 or T5 with the tranny in gear and the clutch not depressed, it will get a switch at that time.  A switch of drivers.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    12/17/2023 10:41 AM  #42

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    MS wrote:

    If somebody tries to start my TKO600 or T5 with the tranny in gear and the clutch not depressed, it will get a switch at that time. A switch of drivers.

    I think of these posts whenever I turn the key from outside the car, or jump the starter solenoid, seems enough to stay fresh in my mind.  Although as I getting older, I may consider wiring in the neutral switch on my T-5.  

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    12/17/2023 1:14 PM  #43

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    https://youtu.be/yc5AWImplfE?t=5


    THIS kinda sez-it-all about this discussion.......
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    12/17/2023 6:14 PM  #44

    Ron68
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    From: Mukilteo, Washington
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    6sally6 wrote:

    https://youtu.be/yc5AWImplfE?t=5


    THIS kinda sez-it-all about this discussion.......
    6s6

    Good one Mike - that old man is beating on my door daily it seems.....not letting him in yet.

    68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
     

    12/18/2023 9:17 AM  #45

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
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    Re: TKX Neutral Safety Switch?

    6sally6 wrote:

    https://youtu.be/yc5AWImplfE?t=5


    THIS kinda sez-it-all about this discussion.......
    6s6

    Thank you Sal

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

     

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