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1/12/2024 7:10 PM  #1


How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

Hi,
Haven't posted in a while but this came up and I'd appreciate some feedback.  I recently ordered a custom ground cam for my 302 Windsor in my 65 FB street car from a fairly well know provider.  I requested the following specs:  215* intake @ 0.050 inches of lift, 221* exhaust @ 0.050 inches of lift, 0.525" lift intake, 0.530" lift exhaust, 110* LSA, 107* ICL. 

I was assured by the grinder that he could get "super close" to what I requested.  What I got was this: 217* intake @ 0.050 inches of lift, 221* exhaust @ 0.050 inches of lift, 0.529" lift intake, 0.516" lift exhaust, 110* LSA, 107* ICL.

So it was close except for the exhaust lift.  So my question is, would any of you reject this cam?  Thanks.
 


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
 

1/12/2024 8:35 PM  #2


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

No.........we're talking a gnats a$$ here. Close enough
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/13/2024 9:36 AM  #3


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

I guess the real question is… will YOU notice the difference?
If I was building the engine to do a particular task on a race track, I would want what I ordered.  On the street, you will never know the difference.

Totally up to the one that shelled out the money.  If he is handing you an off the shelf grind you could have bought from Summit for less money, I would send it back. If he sent you that because he custom ground it and his cam core would only allow that much lift because of size limitations, and he cannot source one that will make that size, that might be a different thing. Did he say why it was that way?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/13/2024 11:22 AM  #4


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

I know that cam grinders have to use pre-made patterns to grind the lobes and so are limited to what patterns they have (unless they want to make a new pattern).  So I asked him in advance  to contact me if he couldn't get pretty close.  He replied that he could get super close but clearly his definition is different than mine.  If this was an off the shelf cam and it came this far off I would definitely send it back.  Just irritating because of the lack of communication.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
     Thread Starter
 

1/13/2024 2:21 PM  #5


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

I agree with Sal and MS.
I'll offer the following. 
How do know your measurements are more accurate than the cam grinder? 
I'm not questioning your, or his, abilities, but I've worked with difference machinists and their measurements are not always exactly the same even when using the same measuring instruments.  Also, when was the last time the calibration of measuring instruments completed?  
 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

1/13/2024 3:37 PM  #6


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

I'm sure my measurements with my cheap dial indicator are not more accurate than the cam grinder.  The figures I mentioned in my initial post are on the cam card.  I came very close to them when I degreed the cam. 


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
     Thread Starter
 

1/13/2024 3:40 PM  #7


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

BobE wrote:

I agree with Sal and MS.
I'll offer the following. 
How do know your measurements are more accurate than the cam grinder? 
I'm not questioning your, or his, abilities, but I've worked with difference machinists and their measurements are not always exactly the same even when using the same measuring instruments.  Also, when was the last time the calibration of measuring instruments completed?  
 

My thoughts exactly.  Its like checking your installed centerline.  If you're within 2 degrees I wouldn't try and adjust it.  There's enough hysteresis in your measuring equipment that you could be off by that much.  Plus a change of 2 degrees might move the powerband 100 RPM.

 

1/13/2024 3:44 PM  #8


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

Thanks but my concern is just with whether any of you folks would reject this cam, based on the requested exhaust lift being 0.516" when I requested 0.530."  The 0.516 figure is from the cam card and I verified it when I degreed the cam.

TKOPerformance wrote:

BobE wrote:

I agree with Sal and MS.
I'll offer the following. 
How do know your measurements are more accurate than the cam grinder? 
I'm not questioning your, or his, abilities, but I've worked with difference machinists and their measurements are not always exactly the same even when using the same measuring instruments.  Also, when was the last time the calibration of measuring instruments completed?  
 

My thoughts exactly.  Its like checking your installed centerline.  If you're within 2 degrees I wouldn't try and adjust it.  There's enough hysteresis in your measuring equipment that you could be off by that much.  Plus a change of 2 degrees might move the powerband 100 RPM.

 


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
     Thread Starter
 

1/13/2024 5:31 PM  #9


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

Stick some 1.7:1 ratio rockers on the exhaust and call it a day?

That would give 0.548 lift.

In existing configuration, the lift on the cam is off by 0.00875” at the lobe

Last edited by MS (1/13/2024 5:32 PM)


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

1/13/2024 6:15 PM  #10


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

MS wrote:

Stick some 1.7:1 ratio rockers on the exhaust and call it a day?

That would give 0.548 lift.

In existing configuration, the lift on the cam is off by 0.00875” at the lobe

Ya beat me to it Steve.....
6s6
 


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

1/13/2024 9:14 PM  #11


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

2.64 % error Sal.

1.7 rockers would make it 3.39% more.

Last edited by Nos681 (1/13/2024 9:17 PM)

 

1/13/2024 9:30 PM  #12


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

Thanks everyone - I'll probably just install it and not deal w/ that cam grinder again.


Cheap, Fast, Good:  Pick Any Two
     Thread Starter
 

1/14/2024 7:21 AM  #13


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

jkordzi wrote:

Thanks but my concern is just with whether any of you folks would reject this cam, based on the requested exhaust lift being 0.516" when I requested 0.530."  The 0.516 figure is from the cam card and I verified it when I degreed the cam.

TKOPerformance wrote:

BobE wrote:

I agree with Sal and MS.
I'll offer the following. 
How do know your measurements are more accurate than the cam grinder? 
I'm not questioning your, or his, abilities, but I've worked with difference machinists and their measurements are not always exactly the same even when using the same measuring instruments.  Also, when was the last time the calibration of measuring instruments completed?  
 

My thoughts exactly.  Its like checking your installed centerline.  If you're within 2 degrees I wouldn't try and adjust it.  There's enough hysteresis in your measuring equipment that you could be off by that much.  Plus a change of 2 degrees might move the powerband 100 RPM.

 

Did you discuss it with the cam company?  Did you pay for a custom grind?  In my experience, cam companies have probably 50-75 part numbers for small block Ford cams they publish.  These are easily found on Summit's website, etc.  However, what you don't see is that they actually have thousands of part numbers for the small block Ford.  They don't publish all of them for a lot of reasons.  However, when a customer requests a custom cam the first thing they do is go through those unlisted part numbers and see if they can find a match or something that's close enough.  So I'm wondering is that's what they did for you.  If you didn't pay to have the cam custom ground to your exact specs then you probably just got what you paid for.  I doubt they thought there was an appreciable difference between the cam they sent and the specs you provided, especially when there a potential variables you aren't considering like ramp design.

Personally, I've never called a cam company and tried to spec my own cam.  I give them as much information as I can about the car, the engine, my power goals, and the use of the car and had their tech guy pick the cam for me.  If part of your discussion was like that, again, they may have simply sent you the cam they felt was best.  In that case I trust the company with hundreds of thousands of hours of dyno time more than I trust myself.  

So, long story short, would I reject it?  Probably no.  I'd just want to make sure I got what I paid for.  So long as I did, and the cam company is confident he cam they sent will meet my goals I'd stab it into the engine and move on. 
 

 

1/14/2024 5:23 PM  #14


Re: How Close Should a Custom Cam Be Ground to Requested Specs?

FYI........(I just learned this...) Be prepared to advance the cam 48-6* because most all custom cams are ground "straight-up".
Meaning there is NO advance ground into the cam.
When you get a "shelf-grind" from Lunati/Isky/Crower/Comp etc...most of those cams are ground with 4-6 degrees advance in them.
'BECAUSE'.....in street applications the  advance helps with low speed power......and the advance compensates for the slack in the timing chain or lash in the lifters.
When cranking-in advance be aware that the exhaust is closing later (just a tad or..a tad & 1/2) and while its closing the piston is "chasing it" as it comes back up the cylinder. Thanka bowdit...
6sal6

Last edited by 6sally6 (1/14/2024 5:23 PM)


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

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