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  •  » EFI conversions…food for thought

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    8/14/2024 10:29 PM  #1

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
    Registered: 7/14/2016
    Posts: 3,318

    EFI conversions…food for thought

    While helping a friend today with starting issues, this crossed my mind.

    I performed a factory EFI swap into the ‘65 successfully back in 2018.

    A foxbody (fender mounted) starter solenoid and the factory “mini starter w/ a solenoid” is how Ford did it and I copied this setup.

    The foxbody fender solenoid is “diode suppressed” to protect electronics from voltage spikes and damage.

    The 65-80’s fender mounted starter solenoids may not have a diode.

    Hope this can help prevent unnecessary failures.

    65-80’s Mustang



    Foxbody starter solenoid.

     

    8/14/2024 10:48 PM  #2

    rpm
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    From: Bakersfield, Ca
    Registered: 9/17/2013
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Starter issues like this?  It's not like it was a cheap starter. Anyone in the market for a 69 Mach 1?



    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/15/2024 7:31 AM  #3

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Old cars . . sheeshz, is there any end to the carnage!🤬

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    8/15/2024 8:17 AM  #4

    BobE
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    From: White Plains, NY
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    RPM - glad you were able to get the nose piece out.  My son's 91 Bronco starter nose broke like this and fell into the bellhousing and we couldn't get it out without pulling the trans/transfer case.  He sold the Bronco.

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    8/15/2024 8:23 AM  #5

    BobE
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Although I never had an issue with a surge, based on several friends recommendations, I installed a Painless Performance 40030 surge protector (a diode) from Summit, cost about $10.  It goes across the battery, very simple to install. 

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    8/15/2024 9:09 AM  #6

    Rufus68
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    From: Knoxville, TN
    Registered: 4/26/2017
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    If the 2 bolts are both tight on a PMGR starter, I can't imagine how that could happen to the nose.Those bolts must have been loose.  (I'm guessing)

    1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
     

    8/15/2024 11:14 AM  #7

    Steve69
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    From: Madison Wisconsin
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    I just dropped $300 on a power master starter.  I had a cheaper Ebay starter that was less than 5 months old. It was having problems heat soak and wouldn't turn over.  I thought it was maybe the timing or alternator not charging but those all checked out ok.  Now it rips hot and cold. 

     

    8/15/2024 11:50 AM  #8

    Rufus68
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    The PMGR starter on my Jeep Liberty has a heat shield bolted to it.  If you have the issue again, you can probably find or make a heat shield.  The liberty heat shield mounts with two small bolts to the starter. Looking on the Internet, I see that there are several starter heat shield wraps that might protect the starter from the exhaust heat.

    1968 T-code Coupe with a 302.  Nice car, no show stopper for sure, but I like it.
     

    8/16/2024 11:37 AM  #9

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Rudi wrote:

    Old cars . . sheeshz, is there any end to the carnage!🤬

     
    Nope. After turning over the motor to check the ring gear teeth, I found a broken tooth.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/16/2024 11:39 AM  #10

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    BobE wrote:

    RPM - glad you were able to get the nose piece out.  My son's 91 Bronco starter nose broke like this and fell into the bellhousing and we couldn't get it out without pulling the trans/transfer case.  He sold the Bronco.

     
    Ya, well, after finding a broken tooth on the starter ring gear I too will have to pull the tranny.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/16/2024 11:41 AM  #11

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Rufus68 wrote:

    If the 2 bolts are both tight on a PMGR starter, I can't imagine how that could happen to the nose.Those bolts must have been loose.  (I'm guessing)

     
    The starter bolts took a bit more grunt to remove them this time as they were might tight.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/16/2024 11:47 AM  #12

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Steve69 wrote:

    I just dropped $300 on a power master starter.  I had a cheaper Ebay starter that was less than 5 months old. It was having problems heat soak and wouldn't turn over.  I thought it was maybe the timing or alternator not charging but those all checked out ok.  Now it rips hot and cold. 

     
    Three hunert??? Yikes!

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/16/2024 11:48 AM  #13

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Rufus68 wrote:

    The PMGR starter on my Jeep Liberty has a heat shield bolted to it.  If you have the issue again, you can probably find or make a heat shield.  The liberty heat shield mounts with two small bolts to the starter. Looking on the Internet, I see that there are several starter heat shield wraps that might protect the starter from the exhaust heat.

     
    I will definitely look into that, thank you. What year is the Liberty?

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/16/2024 4:07 PM  #14

    Alan
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    From: Axtell KS
    Registered: 4/03/2013
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    BobE wrote:

    RPM - glad you were able to get the nose piece out.  My son's 91 Bronco starter nose broke like this and fell into the bellhousing and we couldn't get it out without pulling the trans/transfer case.  He sold the Bronco.

    You mean your not just going to sell the car?
     

    67 Coupe, 5.0 EEC IV Fuel injected. T5, 3:70 rear
     

    8/16/2024 6:01 PM  #15

    Nos681
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    From: Atlantic Mine, Michigan
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    Of course not Alan, he is going to fix it…and give it to me.🤞🏼🤞🏼

    Last edited by Nos681 (8/16/2024 7:16 PM)

       •Thread Starter
     

    8/16/2024 9:26 PM  #16

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    This is probably the only monthly fix I've done without having to buy any parts. I had a spare starter and starter ring gear laying around. Now as far as labor goes...

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

    8/17/2024 7:52 AM  #17

    BobE
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    rpm wrote:

    Rudi wrote:

    Old cars . . sheeshz, is there any end to the carnage!🤬

     
    Nope. After turning over the motor to check the ring gear teeth, I found a broken tooth.

    Bummer! 
    I haven't seen this before, I'd make sure the starter drive is compatible with your flywheel ... just saying. 
     

    65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
     

    8/17/2024 8:13 AM  #18

    Rudi
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    My guess is that if it were a compatibility issue it would have showed up long ago.
    I had a starter that broke off just like that and iirc it also was a Bosch.
    I replaced with a rebuilt Champion, about 80 bucks at the time, lotsa miles since then.

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    8/17/2024 9:32 AM  #19

    rpm
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    Re: EFI conversions…food for thought

    BobE wrote:

    rpm wrote:

    Rudi wrote:

    Old cars . . sheeshz, is there any end to the carnage!🤬

     
    Nope. After turning over the motor to check the ring gear teeth, I found a broken tooth.

    Bummer! 
    I haven't seen this before, I'd make sure the starter drive is compatible with your flywheel ... just saying. 
     

     
    For these year Fords there are only two starters that are compatible.  One has a ⅜ inch stick out, and the other has ¾ inch. Since they each have a different mounting mounting recess OD, it's nearly impossible to mount the wrong one.

    Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
     

     

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