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10/26/2024 3:16 AM  #1


2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

I didn't want to intrude on KeithP's thread about 4 post lifts, so started my own thread.
I have a 2 post MaxJax. I like it because it has a limited lift and won't bounce the car off the relatively low ceiling in my basement garage. Also, it can be unbolted and moved out out the way in a few minutes to make way for the rotisserie.
Yesterday, I had the car up on the lift for several hours (obviously not under pressure the whole time), put it down, and was preparing to lift it again when my customary check for leakage now revealed puddles under both cylinders.
It's 8 years old and is only used occasionally, but yesterday, both cylinders failed at the same time in the same way. They are dripping out the bottom of both cylinders around the shaft, indicating seal failure. A double failure at the same time usually denotes a common cause- any ideas what that may be? 
Bend Pak owns the company now, and does not offer a seal kit. I don't have a problem removing the cylinders and having them repaired as they suggested. New cylinders are also available from Bend Pak for $441 each. Obviously I don't want a repeat performance and I'm most concerned about safety. Just a note; the garage never reaches  freezing, so this isn't an O-ring failure like the ill fated Challenger.
 

 

10/26/2024 5:48 AM  #2


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

I can only offer that maybe the seals dries out due to non-use, or the seals were of inferior quality. I suggest finding a reputable cylinder rebuilder (ask around locally) to rebuild the cylinders.  They may be also able to offer a reason for the failure. 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

10/26/2024 5:52 AM  #3


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

I would take the cylinders to a local hydraulic shop and see if they can determine the cause.  Then see if they can repair them and whether or not they think the repair will last.

If they don't think the repair will last I would buy the new cylinders from Bend Pak.  That way if they fail again at least they should be covered under some kind of warranty and/or parts to repair them will be available. 

Temperature shouldn't make any difference.  I've used heavy equipment many times in temperatures well below freezing and never had a seal failure in a cylinder.  In fact I can't remember EVER having a seal failure, including on the backhoe my neighbor has which is my age.  So if I had to pinpoint a reason I would probably think, based on the little we know, that the cylinders may have been failure prone (reason Bend Pak does not offer repair parts, and instead has new cylinders available), and this was probably due to sourcing cylinders from the lowest cost supplier (probably made overseas). 
 

 

10/26/2024 7:35 AM  #4


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Both are good suggestions. The previous manufacturer was Dannmar equipment. I find the fact that Bend Pak doesn't offer an seal kit highly suspect, and may be due to high failure rates on Dannmar's design. Bend Pak certainly wants a pretty penny for their cylinders.

     Thread Starter
 

10/26/2024 9:55 AM  #5


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Cylinders are not that bad to work on.  Just make sure you have a safe way of disassembling them.  Don’t use compressed air to make a parts cannon. You don’t want to launch the rod and piston into low earth orbit.   If they can’t be pulled apart by hand once the gland nut is removed rig both ends to something stationary and pull it apart with a come along or chain fall.

U-cup seals (poly-packs) are common.  McMaster Carr (think industrial Amazon but not evil) has them.
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/polypack-lip-seals/

Lots of things it could be, but the seals are most likely.    Could also be that the piston is loose on the rod.

What type of hydraulic oil are you running?

 

10/26/2024 10:45 AM  #6


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Mach1Driver wrote:

I didn't want to intrude on KeithP's thread about 4 post lifts, so started my own thread.
I have a 2 post MaxJax. I like it because it has a limited lift and won't bounce the car off the relatively low ceiling in my basement garage. Also, it can be unbolted and moved out out the way in a few minutes to make way for the rotisserie.
Yesterday, I had the car up on the lift for several hours (obviously not under pressure the whole time), put it down, and was preparing to lift it again when my customary check for leakage now revealed puddles under both cylinders.
It's 8 years old and is only used occasionally, but yesterday, both cylinders failed at the same time in the same way. They are dripping out the bottom of both cylinders around the shaft, indicating seal failure. A double failure at the same time usually denotes a common cause- any ideas what that may be? 
Bend Pak owns the company now, and does not offer a seal kit. I don't have a problem removing the cylinders and having them repaired as they suggested. New cylinders are also available from Bend Pak for $441 each. Obviously I don't want a repeat performance and I'm most concerned about safety. Just a note; the garage never reaches  freezing, so this isn't an O-ring failure like the ill fated Challenger.
 

This is the place I will probably get my parts from. Here is their list of 2 post seal kits.

https://www.carliftparts.com/product-category/lift-and-hoist-parts/2-post-lift-parts/2-post-auto-lift-hydraulic-cylinder-seal-kit-rebuild/


1966, vert, 347 stroker, T5z, 4 wheel disc, pb, 3.70 LS 9", EPAS
 

10/27/2024 7:26 AM  #7


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

TKOPerformance wrote:

Temperature shouldn't make any difference.  
 

The instruction manual says the safe operating temperature range for this product is 41°F to 104°F, and it has always been used between that range.
A search on the internet now seems to indicate a rash of cylinder problems about the time I bought it in 2016. Dannmar who made the lift when I bought it said to use Teflon tape on the hydraulic fittings, but now BendPak wants you to use PTFE thread sealant. 

     Thread Starter
 

10/27/2024 7:29 AM  #8


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Bentworker wrote:

What type of hydraulic oil are you running?

O'Reilly AW-32 hydraulic oil, in the gallon jug.

     Thread Starter
 

10/27/2024 9:46 AM  #9


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

The ID of most cylinders is just honed steel tube, not polished & plated like the rod.  The surface that the piston seal rides on isn’t nearly as perfect as the rod seal.  Who knows what concoction of “rubber” was being used at the time to make the seals.  Take it apart and measure it up.  Worst case you put new u-cup seals in them and it still leaks down.  The seals are not costly.  I can’t think of another way it would have failed unless there is contamination / rust inside or if the surface finish of the honed tube is poor.

Maybe replace the oil when you are done just for good measure?

 

10/27/2024 12:39 PM  #10


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Bentworker wrote:

The ID of most cylinders is just honed steel tube, not polished & plated like the rod. The surface that the piston seal rides on isn’t nearly as perfect as the rod seal. Who knows what concoction of “rubber” was being used at the time to make the seals. Take it apart and measure it up. Worst case you put new u-cup seals in them and it still leaks down. The seals are not costly. I can’t think of another way it would have failed unless there is contamination / rust inside or if the surface finish of the honed tube is poor.

Maybe replace the oil when you are done just for good measure?

From the videos I've seen, at the bottom of the piston there are several wear pieces plus the seal itself. Looks like a felt wiper and nylon guide(s) and then the seal. I suspect the nylon/plastic guides start deteriorating and wipe out the seal. That end of the cylinder is also open to the atmosphere and air gets sucks in and pushed out along with whatever is floating around in the air.


1966, vert, 347 stroker, T5z, 4 wheel disc, pb, 3.70 LS 9", EPAS
 

10/28/2024 10:19 AM  #11


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Mach1Driver wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Temperature shouldn't make any difference.  
 

The instruction manual says the safe operating temperature range for this product is 41°F to 104°F, and it has always been used between that range.
A search on the internet now seems to indicate a rash of cylinder problems about the time I bought it in 2016. Dannmar who made the lift when I bought it said to use Teflon tape on the hydraulic fittings, but now BendPak wants you to use PTFE thread sealant. 

The knock on teflon tape is that the first thread on the fitting should not have the tape applied.  This is to preclude strips of teflon tape breaking off getting into the hydraulic system and causing problems.  As manufacturers can’t control the people applying the tape, they switched to recommending PTFE sealant.  (That's my understanding)

 


65 Fastback, 351W, 5-speed, 4 wheel discs, 9" rear,  R&C Front End.
 

10/28/2024 2:02 PM  #12


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

KeithP wrote:

That end of the cylinder is also open to the atmosphere and air gets sucks in and pushed out along with whatever is floating around in the air.

I suppose there's no reason why one couldn't cut a peice of air filter foam and hot-melt glue it such that the foam fitlers the air coming in but isn't blown off by air coming out.


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

10/29/2024 8:18 AM  #13


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

I personally would not use air filter foam…at least long term.

The equipment air compressors at work have the foam filters and they breakdown within a year or so.
I understand the heat it is exposed to at the head of the compressor inlet.
I believe there are better options available than foam.

I would use a crankcase vent filter.
This will allow free air flow as well as keep bugs out of system.

 

10/29/2024 1:05 PM  #14


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

This is an old lift that has no safety stops and it had a double cylinder failure. I was very lucky that the car  wasn't seriously damaged, or that I got hurt. After talking with a local cylinder shop and MaxJax, I removed the lift and I am waiting for a scrap company to haul it away- hopefully today. My conscious wouldn't allow me to give this away to anyone, for any purpose except scrapping.
Thank you all for your comments.

     Thread Starter
 

10/29/2024 1:27 PM  #15


Re: 2 Post Lift Cylinder failure

Yikes! Good move on scrapping it. Glad we still have you around Terry.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

Board footera


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