Dennis wrote:

BobE wrote:

Realizing that pressure may not be the problem, I would verify with Borgeson what is the proper pressure for your setup. 
If the need be, Borgeson offers a PS pump 899001 shim kit, it allows for adjusting the pressure from 700-1,350 PSI using combinations of the 5 shims included in the kit, and costs about $20. 

Do they sell an inline pressure gauge adapter?
 

I do not know of any kit that can be installed to check the pressure.  One could plumb a gauge in line buying the hose, adapters and gauge(s).
I found that my R&P setup was “touchy” with the original Borgeson pump that had one shim (1,200PSI), and was advised by Borgeson to reduce it to 1,000 PSI (3 shims), and the touchiness went away.
Note that the number of shims installed can be viewed on the outside of the Borgeson pump.
 
Below chart is from the Borgeson shim kit:
• No shims: ~1,350 PSI (Stock GM output)
• 1 shim: ~1,200 PSI
• 2 shims: ~1,100 PSI
• 3 shims: ~1,000 PSI
• 4 shims: ~850 PSI
• 5 shims: ~700 PSI

 

BobE wrote:

Dennis wrote:

BobE wrote:

Realizing that pressure may not be the problem, I would verify with Borgeson what is the proper pressure for your setup. 
If the need be, Borgeson offers a PS pump 899001 shim kit, it allows for adjusting the pressure from 700-1,350 PSI using combinations of the 5 shims included in the kit, and costs about $20. 

Do they sell an inline pressure gauge adapter?
 

I do not know of any kit that can be installed to check the pressure.  One could plumb a gauge in line buying the hose, adapters and gauge(s).
I found that my R&P setup was “touchy” with the original Borgeson pump that had one shim (1,200PSI), and was advised by Borgeson to reduce it to 1,000 PSI (3 shims), and the touchiness went away.
Note that the number of shims installed can be viewed on the outside of the Borgeson pump.
 
Below chart is from the Borgeson shim kit:
• No shims: ~1,350 PSI (Stock GM output)
• 1 shim: ~1,200 PSI
• 2 shims: ~1,100 PSI
• 3 shims: ~1,000 PSI
• 4 shims: ~850 PSI
• 5 shims: ~700 PSI

 

Interesting.  I'll look at that.  Not sure what I'm looking for regarding shims (especially if there are none) so hopefully it's obvious.  I would certainly not say my system is touchy.

BobE wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

I also used 3 shims and found this made the assist smooth.  It was overly sensitive and twitchy with the pump pressure set as delivered.

My new setup will use a different method to reduce pressure to the box, as the hydroboost needs full pressure.  I therefore am installing an adjustable pressure valve from Heidts  between the hydroboost discharge for the box and the box.  

Curious, the hydroboost I installed works fine with the 1,000 PSI pump pressure.  What pressure do you feel you need for your system?
My hydroboost is from a 99-02 Mustang 4.6L that I bought off of eBay. 
 

Mine is not from a production vehicle.  Its actually an adapted GM unit.  In speaking with the manufacturer the GM units want higher pressure than the Ford ones.  He advised running it at full pump pressure.  

There's more to it than that though.  The changing shims to set steering assist is Mickey Mouse.  With the Heidt's valve I can adjust the assist without having to open the system (no mess, no bleeding after).  This will allow me to set the assist exactly where I want it, instead of being tempted to live with it after a single adjustment because changing shims again is a PITA.  Granted, there is more plumbing involved due to running the Heidt's valve, but once its installed changing assist will be like changing brake bias on a car with an adjustable proportioning valve.  

Now, I get it, why wouldn't it be fine with the way it was adjusted before?  Well, for one thing the pump mounting setup I got from Borgesson also qualifies as Mickey Mouse.  There's WAY too much flex in that setup, so I really couldn't tell if the assist pressure was the function of shimming the regulator or  the pump mount flexing and causing in effect variable assist depending on how tight the belt was.  I switched to the Fox accessory drive for two reasons:

1.) Stop the intermittent alternator belt squeal on startup.

2.) Get a better PS pump mounting system.

On the later one I am using a conversion bracket to allow running a Saginaw pump with the Fox drive setup, and a different pump reservoir needed to clear that bracketry.  Its a lot of work for a couple seemingly small issues, but IME its the little issues that drive you nuts, not the big stuff, because you fix the big stuff instead of living with it like the small stuff.  A lot of this is also linked to where I'm going with the car in the future (installation of my 347), so things like having the best cooling system available, a 3/8" fuel line, etc. don't really matter on the 289, but will be essential when I swap engines.  With the ancillary systems already sorted the engine swap becomes an easier, and shorter task in the future.  
 

MS wrote:

4° positive caster will cute the return to center issue. Be sure the idler arm and pitman is positioned correctly so the box is exactly at the center of its travel when driving straight ahead.

  

The pitman is indexed every 90 degrees, so it is where it needs to be.  I had the wheels pointed straight when I tightened the idler.  

You really think 1.5 degrees will make a huge change in the behavior?  There is no spring-back effect even with the car not moving.  What I mean is if I give the wheel a little tug, not enough to move the tires, I would expect it to move back to where it started.  This seems really odd to me.
 

BobE wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

BobE wrote:

Curious, the hydroboost I installed works fine with the 1,000 PSI pump pressure.  What pressure do you feel you need for your system?
My hydroboost is from a 99-02 Mustang 4.6L that I bought off of eBay. 
 

Mine is not from a production vehicle.  Its actually an adapted GM unit.  In speaking with the manufacturer the GM units want higher pressure than the Ford ones.  He advised running it at full pump pressure.  

There's more to it than that though.  The changing shims to set steering assist is Mickey Mouse.  With the Heidt's valve I can adjust the assist without having to open the system (no mess, no bleeding after).  This will allow me to set the assist exactly where I want it, instead of being tempted to live with it after a single adjustment because changing shims again is a PITA.  Granted, there is more plumbing involved due to running the Heidt's valve, but once its installed changing assist will be like changing brake bias on a car with an adjustable proportioning valve.  

Now, I get it, why wouldn't it be fine with the way it was adjusted before?  Well, for one thing the pump mounting setup I got from Borgesson also qualifies as Mickey Mouse.  There's WAY too much flex in that setup, so I really couldn't tell if the assist pressure was the function of shimming the regulator or  the pump mount flexing and causing in effect variable assist depending on how tight the belt was.  I switched to the Fox accessory drive for two reasons:

1.) Stop the intermittent alternator belt squeal on startup.

2.) Get a better PS pump mounting system.

On the later one I am using a conversion bracket to allow running a Saginaw pump with the Fox drive setup, and a different pump reservoir needed to clear that bracketry.  Its a lot of work for a couple seemingly small issues, but IME its the little issues that drive you nuts, not the big stuff, because you fix the big stuff instead of living with it like the small stuff.  A lot of this is also linked to where I'm going with the car in the future (installation of my 347), so things like having the best cooling system available, a 3/8" fuel line, etc. don't really matter on the 289, but will be essential when I swap engines.  With the ancillary systems already sorted the engine swap becomes an easier, and shorter task in the future.  
 

I have MII front end (R&P steering) and Vintage Air that came with the brackets for the Borgeson PS pump and have no issues with this setup. 
Good luck on making the setup the way that makes you comfortable … which is the important for one’s sanity!

 

Vintage Air probably makes a decent bracket for the pump, whereas Borgesson sadly does not.  Their system is great, but its like everything they could cheap out on they did (lower column bearing anyone?).  I used the MS lower bearing and made a floor bracket from scratch because the stuff they sent in the kit was utter junk.  I'm fairly certain they could charge another $100-$150 for the kit if these issues were addressed and still make the same, or even more money than they already do.  
 

I agree that changing from 2.5 degrees positive tom 4 degrees positive will make a significant difference in return to center.  It will also make a significant difference in how straight the car tracks on the highway.

However, the return to center seemed like it was only part of your issue.  The tightness issue is not going to be cured by changing caster.  I still believe the box is to blame for that part of your problem.  

If you don't think it drives like any other car, then no I wouldn't say its okay.  Mine took some work to get where I wanted it (reducing pressure to the box to remove twitchiness), but the return to center has always been the same as any vehicle I drive.  If the steering isn't "normal" then its not okay.  Consider that what this car drove like in the '60s no longer applies.  We don't run bias ply tires anymore, the alignment specs are the same as a modern car, and it has modern steering in it now.  There's no reason it should drive any different than any other modern car, unless something is still off.  

BobE wrote:

I’ve found my MII R&C front end (R&P) steering system with 3 degrees caster, that I need to pull the wheel back after a hard turn.  The car tracks just fine on the highway.  I plan to live with it as-is. 
 
I can say that the 50’ and 60’s cars I drove with manual steering, after a hard turn, the steering wheel would spin back with such force that one had to slow it down by sliding one’s hands on the outside of the steering wheel.
I do not see that with modern power steering systems, but these newer systems do return to center without any issues.

The reason they don't return like that anymore is that if you got your thumb hooked in spokes you could end up with a broken thumb.  Many years of driving off road has trained me to never wrap my thumbs around the wheel.  Off road if you hit a stump, rock, etc. the wheel can jerk unexpectedly, and I've seen guys get hurt by this.  
 

I would start off as friendly as you can, as though you assume they will make it right.  If they don't then there are steps you can take.  I'm assuming you purchased the kit on a credit card.  Those charges can still be reversed for 6-12 months, and most cards have quality assurance, meaning that if what you bought is defective and the seller won't make it right they will reverse the charges.