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2/25/2014 4:48 PM  #1


More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

I'm thinking about a DIY alternative to the Borgeson PS as I posted the other day.  I've read where Borgeson rebuilds Isuzu Trooper PS boxes, welds on an adapter plate and machines the output shaft to fit the Mustang pitman arm.  I've seen write-ups where someone will install a Trooper box, but then has to deal with the fact that the Mustang pitman arm doesn't fit the Trooper splined shaft.  I've seen this addressed two ways and ould like some input as to which is better:

1. Weld the end of the Trooper pitman arm to the Mustang arm like this guy:  http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mod-custom-forum/636459-cheap-integrated-power-steering-write-up-pics.html

2..Cut off the splined end of the Trooper arm, turn it round in a lathe and press it into a hole bored into another pitman arm.  However, it doesn't look like there is enough room on the end of the pre-67 Mustang pitman arm to be able to bore it out for this, since the Trooper output shaft is larger by about 1/4".  So I stumbled on this site:  http://www.stangerssite.com/pitmanarms.html which lists the different types of Mustang Pitman arms.  I noticed that the 1967-1970 Mustang with power steering after 5-1-67 accommodated a larger 1 1/8" sector shaft.  Does anyone think this arm would have enough meat on the splined end for this kind of modification?  Randy Meyer, who runs that site confirmed that the post 5-1-67 arm has the same geometry as the 65/66 arms.  He also suggested that I might want to have the piece from the Trooper and Mustang arm keyed to lock the pieces together, but my plan was to have them welded.

3. Get the output shaft of the Trooper box machined to fit the Mustang pitman arm.  Anyone have any idea what a machine shop would charge for that?

Thanks.

 


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2/26/2014 8:10 AM  #2


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

     I would think number 1 is your best option. If you can find a good welder I don't think you have to cut it as fancy as the one in the pictures. I would just cut it off straight. A good welder will angle the cuts to get more weld in there. From the pictures in the link it looks like the clock position would be the same, although I would verify that. Keep in mind the distance between the holes. Any welder I have talked to says the welded area will be stronger than the original.
     One other option you may have could be classic performance parts. By no means am I an advocate for them. I bought a P.S. kit from them, I think it uses the same box you are using. It was their 400 series box. Mine was for a 66 Mustang coupe. I had to purchase the pitman arm separate. I don’t know if they still sell the kit or pitman arm but may be worth a call. Do not call on weekends, I think the janitor answers.
 


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2/26/2014 12:29 PM  #3


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

I agree with wsinsle.

 

2/26/2014 12:42 PM  #4


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

I felt that the Borgeson box, at a reduced price on sale from CJs was a pretty good buy considering I only needed the box, made up the hoses locally for the 5.0 PS pump, and the only weld I need to worry about is the steel flange that Borgeson welded to the cast steel box.
Probably just me butt (TS&T), I really don't like the idea of welding two pitman arms together.  I'll probably work...I just don't like it.

And...by the time you source the box, have someone make and weld the proper flange to it, which will require disassembling the box and rebuilding it if necessary, then having someone weld the two pitman arms together....well, to me the $450 or so I paid CJs seems like a better deal.

Just sayin'

BB

 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

2/26/2014 12:55 PM  #5


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

Okay, just went and read the VMF post.  No need to change the flange but you absolutely need to weld in through-tubes anywhere a bolt passes through the frame, otherwise it'll be sloppy in a week or less.

For my $$, I'd find a good machine shop and have the shaft re-machined for the 65-66 pitman arm, or for the 1 1/8" arm I used from a 68.

BB

Last edited by Bullet Bob (2/26/2014 12:58 PM)


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

2/26/2014 12:56 PM  #6


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

wsinsle wrote:

     I would think number 1 is your best option. If you can find a good welder I don't think you have to cut it as fancy as the one in the pictures. I would just cut it off straight. A good welder will angle the cuts to get more weld in there. From the pictures in the link it looks like the clock position would be the same, although I would verify that. Keep in mind the distance between the holes. Any welder I have talked to says the welded area will be stronger than the original.
     One other option you may have could be classic performance parts. By no means am I an advocate for them. I bought a P.S. kit from them, I think it uses the same box you are using. It was their 400 series box. Mine was for a 66 Mustang coupe. I had to purchase the pitman arm separate. I don’t know if they still sell the kit or pitman arm but may be worth a call. Do not call on weekends, I think the janitor answers.
 

Thanks.  I called them and they don't sell the pitman arm separately.  It looks like they sell the Borgeson box at about the same price point.  I'm kind of leaning toward No. 1 but need to educate myself more on ensuring that the welding gets done correctly.   I've seen extensive posts on the H.A.M.B., where aside for a couple of opinions, most people feel welding a forged steel pitman arm is not an issue if done properly.  There are a lot of welded suspension components that are sold and installed on cars every day and that never seems to bother people, but something about welding pitman arms always seems to stir up debate.
 


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     Thread Starter
 

2/26/2014 12:59 PM  #7


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

Bullet Bob wrote:

Okay, just went and read the VMF post.  No need to change the flange but you absolutely need to weld in through-tubes anywhere a bolt passes through the frame, otherwise it'll be sloppy in a week or less.

I think you're right and I was planning on doing that along with the additional triangular bracket for the top bolt hole in the Trooper box that would be above the subframe.  Thanks.
 


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     Thread Starter
 

2/26/2014 1:36 PM  #8


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

I don't see any issues in welding  pittman arms BUT,  if you do it, make sure you "V" out both pieces so that the weld penetrates completely through from one side to the other and the arm totally becomes a solid piece of steel..

The way ot was done as pictured in the VMF post the arms were only chamfered about a quarter inch all around and the weld is only around the perimiter of the weld zones with overlapped sections still not fused.

The welment should be peheated to about 400 degrees prior to welding and after each complete pass of the weld, the weld   should be peened and thoroughly wire brushed before the next pass.

I would use a low hydrogen welding rod or preferably Certainium 707.

When the welding is completed the arm should be allowed to cool very slowly by burying it in coke ash or lime.


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2/26/2014 2:13 PM  #9


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

Rudi wrote:

I don't see any issues in welding pittman arms BUT, if you do it, make sure you "V" out both pieces so that the weld penetrates completely through from one side to the other and the arm totally becomes a solid piece of steel..

The way ot was done as pictured in the VMF post the arms were only chamfered about a quarter inch all around and the weld is only around the perimiter of the weld zones with overlapped sections still not fused.

The welment should be peheated to about 400 degrees prior to welding and after each complete pass of the weld, the weld should be peened and thoroughly wire brushed before the next pass.

I would use a low hydrogen welding rod or preferably Certainium 707.

When the welding is completed the arm should be allowed to cool very slowly by burying it in coke ash or lime.

I was thinking the same thing about the pitman arm I referenced - that the v grooving wasn't very deep.  I emailed the guy who replied that he didn't have any issues after driving it a couple of years, but I think I would groove it deeper.  I was also thinking about doing a button weld through one of the overlapping pieces.  When you say peened between passes, do you mean peening w/ a hammer - not shot peening?  Thanks.
 

Last edited by jkordzi (2/26/2014 2:33 PM)


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     Thread Starter
 

2/26/2014 5:04 PM  #10


Re: More on my DIY alternative to Borgeson PS

He means with a hammer. A pointed "pick hammer" to chip out any slag and debris. Make a V on each side of the (2) pitman arm pieces. Kinda like this  \       /   so when you fit them together it will look lik this  V. I would tack a piece of flat bar across the bottom of the V to help keep the two pieces from  trying to draw together. (The heat of welding make metal do that)  Take your time to minimize warpage. Then.....once cool .. use a grinder and remove the flat bar  and grind / V-out  out the bottom of the fit-up line (on the bottom of the (2) arms)  ^  until you get to solid weld. (probably about 1/3 way through the arms.) Then weld that up resulting in solid weld. A whole lot of over kill butt you will sleep better at night.
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