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4/14/2014 6:46 PM  #1


Brake issues

First hello to all,

I'm restoring a 65 fastback for three years now.
Not my first rodeo but I have a issue!

Retro disc from a 70' stang with the 2000 V6 stang power brake upgrade ( Steve's pin move) with new master, brake lines ( steel and hose),wheel cyl, clap. Kits, etc.

I can not get a peddle
I've tried mighty vac, pressure pump, peddle pump, etc.
Three quarts of fluid.

Any ideas?


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
 

4/14/2014 7:31 PM  #2


Re: Brake issues

Usually when I hear of a brake transplant that cannot be bled properly, the calipers are on the wrong side of the car.  On the 70 front disc calipers, the bleeder screw must point to the REAR of the car.  It seems logical to install the bleeders pointing straight up, but that is not the case.


You did not say what rear brakes you have.  It would help to have that information as well.
What booster are you using?  You mentioned 2000 Mustang V6 power brake upgrade, but I assume you mean the 2000 master cylinder, not the booster.  Drums or discs in the rear?
Did you perform the pedal pin modification exactly per the drawing?  Mispositioning the pin even a little bit can result in the pedal sitting way too low.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/15/2014 7:32 AM  #3


Re: Brake issues

Steve,

I used your pin kit, and im assumimng i did it right. It seems to flow easy.
The booster was also from a 2000's V6 mustang. I bought a new master to be safe.
The rear are the orginal drum with new everything.
The system is new from the front to the back. All lines have been changed, etc.
But now im scratching my head on the calp postion. Ill have to check tonight when i get home.
i hope that is it, but i want tell anybodythat is what i did.
 


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/15/2014 8:10 AM  #4


Re: Brake issues

You would not be the first to make that mistake.  I think I was...

As for that booster, that is not one of the specified boosters for the kit, so I am wondering if there is a different rod length or something?  Or is is actually from a 79-93 Fox Mustang as specified?

On the rear drums, if they are not adjusted out against the drums, the pedal travel will be excessive with no braking action going on.  Adjust them tight against the drum, then back off ten clicks.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/15/2014 8:42 AM  #5


Re: Brake issues

Now you got me questioning myself.
i bought the booster/master off ebay some years back. i thinking it was off the fox body, im almost sure.
i will do the adjustments and see what happens.
one other thing, there is no motor in the car so im not using the booster vacuum. so should it not just feel like manual brakes?
the pedal travels all the way to the floor, but im getting fluid at all four points.
I tried to pressure bleed, but i cant get the master cap to hold even 5psi with out leaking fluid.
tried to double seal, still leaks.
Could it be a bad cap or master reservore?
This master has the plastic reservore and cap.
Im fixin to scrap the hold thing and buy a new setup.
 


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/15/2014 8:30 PM  #6


Re: Brake issues

If the booster fit the plate supplied with the kit, and the booster was capable of being bolted to the firewall, then it is not the problem, unless the output shaft is not properly adjusted.  I should have mentioned that before... The output shaft of the booster needs to fit the master cylinder within about 0.010" of touching the piston. 

Since you have less mechanical advantage on the brake pedal, without any vacuum the pedal will be harder to push than if you have vacuum, but the travel will be the same, which should be about 1" to 1-1/2" total to achieve a fairly hard pedal.  The pedal might go a little farther than that, but you have to push real hard to do it.

The master cylinder is likely not the problem.  You are getting fluid to all four corners of the car, so it is flowing.  Did you bench bleed it?  Do you have any of the hard lines running ABOVE the level of the fluid in the master cylinder?  That can trap air.

What about the rear drums?  Are they adjusted tight?

And about the caliper positions... Did you check???????

It would be a shame to scrap parts that are perfectly fine.  Would you rather have a chinese booster with no pedal ratio correction?

It would be a huge help if you could post a picture of the booster/master cylinder/proportioning valve area and a picture of the calipers as installed.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/16/2014 7:04 AM  #7


Re: Brake issues

Thanks for the incouragement.

didnt have nuch time last night, butttttttttttttt the calip were on wrong!
Swapped them made a few attemps at bleeding but still no pedal.
I thinking that maybe i ruin the master seals pumping on the system.
next plan of action is to pull the master off, bench bleed, if that works reinstall.
if not ill replace it with a new one, and retry.
After 35 years of playing with cars, this has been the worst experience with brakes i have ever had.
I sure hope its not signs of getting old.


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/16/2014 12:18 PM  #8


Re: Brake issues

Post a picture of what you have for booster, master and nearby tubing.

Last time I bled some 69 calipers, I had to get out the vacuum pump to get any flow.

How far off the floor is your brake pedal in static position?  Did you adjust booster output shaft.
I cannot help any more without a picture.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/16/2014 6:59 PM  #9


Re: Brake issues

We got brakes!!

Changed the master cyl everything good.
I think I ruined the first one pumping it to death.

Thanks so much for the help

I will still post a picture


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/16/2014 7:15 PM  #10


Re: Brake issues


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/16/2014 7:32 PM  #11


Re: Brake issues

Dboudreaux wrote:

 
Looks like a Fox Mustang MC with the odd ball 1-3/16" primary piston and 13/16" secondary piston.

 

4/16/2014 10:16 PM  #12


Re: Brake issues

Any particular reason you went with that master cylinder?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

4/17/2014 6:44 AM  #13


Re: Brake issues

I purchased the booster and cyl from a donor fox body.
Is there somehting wrong with that style.
I know the older one is cast.


Life is hard even harder when your stupid!
     Thread Starter
 

4/17/2014 9:04 PM  #14


Re: Brake issues

If it works and you now have good brakes, then it must be good !


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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