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3/27/2014 8:33 AM  #1


TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

As suggested in another forum (VMF) that Mustang Steve may have encountered a similar problem that I am having with the TCP Rack & Pinion on my 67 Mustang Convertible with 2200 miles since rotiserie restoration.

So, Steve, maybe you can help me.

I was told you suffered a sticky binding situation with your TCP unit.  I too am suffering this condition and have been fighting it for three years.  It is so bad that the car can only be driven short distances before it becomes so bound that it is extremely difficult to keep striaght on the road.   The servo has been rebuilt twice the reservoir has been replaced with a non-vented type, the hoses have been replaced and re-routed over the top of the cross member and currently my KRC manufactured pump (aluminum) is at KRC for testing.  A fluid cooler has also been added all to no avail.  Additionaly I have rebuilt and realigned the mounting brackets as they were not straight with the world.

My best description is as follows:   Unit works perfectly until the unit comes up to operating temperature (160f)  which is about 10/15 minutes after start up.  Upon reaching operating temp the ability to move the steering wheel back and forth becomes so difficult that you have to jerk on it resulting in an over correction situation and obviously takes ALL of the fun out of driving the car.  The one constant in all of this is the heat.  It never happens until things warm up.

It should be noted that the folks at TCP and KRC have offered ideas none of which have corrected the problem.  Not to mention all the additional $$$ I have passed their way.  

Your thoughts and comments are appreciated.

Dan 

 

3/27/2014 9:23 AM  #2


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Welcome to FYIFORD. 

I had the opposite problem with mine when I first got it.  But, there were mitigating circumstances.  I bought mine from a guy that had a race car shop, and he had the rack mounted to a display car in the showroom, but never driven.  He sold it to me on ebay, and then declared bankruptcy before he shipped it.  Long story made short, some lawyer threats got him to ship the rack, but I think he screwed around with the bias adjustment screws so the rack was nearly undriveable when I got it.  You could turn the wheel and let go and it would keep turning until it went to full lock.  I finally got the instructions and some TCP help and got it adjusted, and it is fine to this day.

That said, have you tried backing out the bias adjustment screws a half turn to see what changes?  You need to do both of them the same amount or the car will pull to one side.  Those are the allen head setscrews on the input shaft right before it enters the rack gearbox.

I had a friend that installed a (different brand) R&P on his 66 and the mickey mouse u-joint system they sent him would put things big time into a bind, where you had to have alot of muscle power to turn the steering wheel.  Do your shaft u-joints move freely? I can't see how that would be heat related, but worth looking at.  Does your steering column have a lower ballbearing in it to keep the shaft centered?

I know it is pretty difficult to get the rack mounted with all four bolts and have it where it still is in a straight line without being bent while tightening the bolts.  I took quite a long time adding shims to get the rack where it was mounted without it being in a bind.  But mine never had the problem yours is having.

If it was mine, I would try to eliminate the source of the problem "scientifically" for lack of a better word.  First, remove the bolts going through the lower control arm bushings and leave the rack unbolted from that position.  Reinstall some LCA bolts so the car can be driven, but without the rack being bolted to them.  That will eliminate two sources of binding, with the rack still attached to the frame rails.  You should be able to carefully drive the car in the neghborhood at slow speeds to test it, or have it on jackstands under the LCAs..  By no means head out on a busy street or freeway.  Get it hot and see if that eliminates the binding condition.

If it still binds, then you need to loosen the passenger side frame mount so the rack is still supported but not tightened.  Then it will only be held tight by the driver side bolts.  At this point, I think I would have the car with jackstands under the front ball joint area to holt the car up off the ground.  With it warmed up, did the binding go away?  If it did, then you have some alignment problem with bolting the rack tight to the car.  It is a balancing act to get all the shims installed so the rack aligns without binding up.  Be sure to have jackstands under the balljoint area of the LCA to simulate the loads the car will have sitting on its wheels, or use a four post lift so the car IS sitting on its wheels before you tighten up the rack.

If that did not change anything, then I would suspect there is some tolerance issue or a bent part internally.  The only solution for that is to send it to TCP and let them check it out.

One design issue I did run into was on the tie rod adjusting sleeves.  The clamp bolts on the sleeves would hit the rack tube on sharp turns.  That was corrected by installing some billet adjusting sleeves that have a jam nut at each end, eliminating the clamp bolts.

Other than that, mine has performed flawlessly for about 40,000 miles, having been on the car since 2005.

Whatever happens, please post the outcome of your problem.  It will be good info to have on file.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/27/2014 12:07 PM  #3


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Thanks for your info.  I have a manual TCP R&P that has been on since 1999 ~40k miles with no problems.  i am getting to an age where a power steering setup is attractive.  I would get the TCP power steering, but your problem makes me think that maybe the old arm muscles will have to suffice.  Keep us posted. 

I have always had a very good relationship with TCP, but I only live about 40 miles from them, so I can just drive over and have a face to face. 


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

3/27/2014 4:24 PM  #4


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Mine is a power rack.  I am betting the power part of it has nothing to do with it, unless MAYBE there is a internal valve that is not flowing properly.  But fluid usually gets THINNER and flws easier when hot than when cold.  Metal EXPANDS when it gets hot so, in my mind, it is a mechanical problem rather than hydraulic.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/27/2014 5:25 PM  #5


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Thank you.

Honestly I and others here in the Mustang community have done all of what you described and more.  Much more!  I  have run with the rack loosely tightened including the steering column D bar set screwsm on the U-joints.  We have shimmed, aligned and reworked the mounting brackets until it is dead on.  It couldn't be any straighter.

You mentioned the Bias adjuster(s).  "Both sides at the same time"  I see only one. ???????
And during previous attempts to remedy the problem I have backed the screw in and out 1/8 of a turn at a time with no change.  I have not touched it since the folks at TCP reset it at the time of the last servo rebuild.  They have had the entire unit twice and say there is nothing wrong with it.  

I am using a Flaming River Column so I assume it is a quality piece.  Re your Bearing question.

It should also be noted that with the original Ford power steering equipment in place there was no binding of any kind. So I am comfortable the Control Arms and spindles are operating properly.  If I hadn't have given it away, it would be back on the car today and the Rack would be hanging on the wall as another lesson learned.  Since I haven't had to many total failures there is still some room. 

I'm inclined to think there is a bent part somewhere in the rack, but I am not feeling comfortable tearing into it until I am ready to replace it.  TCP would most likely have nothing more to do with me.  It may take some special tools as well.

I agree with the internal part suggestion.  Chatting with one of our transmissions guys here in the area thinks that when the oil gets hot fluid is passing through where it shouldn't (weak seals)  TCP says no.  I do not have the expertise or the tools to test for this condition.  

I am anxiuos to hear what the folks at KRC find when they test my pump.  If the pumps checks out OK it will be time to move on to another manufacture.  I'm thinking Randall's as they are just a couple hours drive from me.  Experience anyone????

I will post the results when this is all settled.  If I live that long.



Thank you

 

     Thread Starter
 

3/27/2014 6:23 PM  #6


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

My personal opinion is to NOT buy a rack that depends on the two center take-off bolts to support a tie rod bar. Flaming river has one that works like a normal rack & pinion, with the tie rods attached to two inner tie rods within the rack boots.  To me, that is a much better design.

The only reason I am OK with the TCP rack using two center bolts is because the bolts are farther apart, and that would take a whole lot more twisting force to twist off the bolts.  There has been at least one catastrophic failure of one of those using the two center bolts that are relatively close together.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/17/2014 10:36 PM  #7


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

FINALLY!  Problem solved.

After three years, thousands of dollars trying this and that I finally zeroed in on the problem.  Thanks to Randall at Randall's R&P.   The problem was the  wear bushing at the end of my Flaming River Steering column.  Aftyer speaking with Randall I sent a email to FR's tech department and within hours I received a response offering a replacement bushing, N/C.  They said they had a newly designed part to take care of the the problem I was experiencing.   Maybe not the first to surface?

It appears the bushing may have been made of UHMW, which is an excellent wear resistant product, but very susceptible to heat.  Replaced the part today and Bingo, problem solved.  I hope none of you have to experience this nightmare.  If your bushing is a white/translucent in color, you may experience this problem. 

Thank again for all your suggestions.

     Thread Starter
 

5/18/2014 9:58 AM  #8


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

It's interesting that it took another company to bring to light an issue that I am sure is not the first.
 This does not say much for the tekkies or for that matter their boss at TC.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

5/18/2014 10:44 AM  #9


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Rudi,

The problem is not with TCP it is with FR.  TCP worked with me for three years (all though not for free) trying to figure this out.  If anyone should have a finger shaking it is FR.  They could have published this condition on various forums such as this one and made life easier for many I'm sure.  I think they're hiny is hanging out on this one.  Ask GM about the risk of silence.

     Thread Starter
 

5/18/2014 11:21 AM  #10


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

A MustangSteve SSBK lower column bearing will fix that also?  Cool...

Does the steering column have same ID as a Mustang column tube?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

5/19/2014 7:41 AM  #11


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

I do not have a stock unit to measure. As good as your set looks.....I am NOT taking it apart again!  :-)

Not for at least three years.  Time to play.  With only three months of decent weather (on agood year) here in the Pacific NW we have to take advantage of every nice day we get.

     Thread Starter
 

5/19/2014 8:52 PM  #12


Re: TCP Rack & Pinion Sticking/Binding

Great news you got it figured out. Equally nice that you posted the outcome.

3/27/2014 3:25 PM
" I am using a Flaming River Column so I assume it is a quality piece.  Re your Bearing question."

We've all done this. I currently TRY to assume nothing is quality anymore when trouble shooting. Enjoy your ride car_junkie!

Bob


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.