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7/12/2014 2:28 PM  #1


Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

The questions I'm about to ask are asked over a thousand times, but I just want to make sure with you guys.

Basic info: swapping in a 351 cleveland, and going to get borgeson steering, and power discs.

I am looking at PB-6770 on mustangsteve's website and was wondering what "new POWER BRAKE PEDAL" means, would I need a new bracket for it? 

Would I have to change my hard lines? 

Can I use my current spindles and just swap out the drums for new discs? (might be going with steve's cobra conversion)

Do I use the original brakes pedal or does the kit comes with new ones?

It does come with dual bowl masters right?

hoses?

Would the booster just bolt right up?
Is steve's kit a conversion style booster (bolt up to the weird ford firewall)?

 

 

7/12/2014 3:49 PM  #2


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Howdy!


If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
 

7/12/2014 5:27 PM  #3


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Like Tubo says....Howdy, and welcome.  I think you'll find that this is the place. 

I just bolted the MS GT brake brackets and "take-off" GT brakes on to our 66...no hassel, no strain.  You may not be able to run exacty the wheels you want but there are quite a few that will work.

As for the booster "kit", on the early cars it's necessary to add two holes to the f-wall but I really don't know about the 69.  Worst case, you will have to add a couple of holes.  MS will sell you a finished pedal hanger or you can mod your own with the addition of a reenforcing/adaptor plate that welds to the front of pedal hanger.

I believe the power brake  pedal Steve mentions is the real PB pedal as opposed to a modified manual pedal.  Either way it's something you want to do as the PB pedal has a bit less leverage and a bit more MC travel for any given pedal travel.  The manual or un-modified pedal can make things a bit grabby, I believe.  Our's is a modified manual pedal and the brakes feel just like our late model.

When you take off your drums don't pitch the hubs.  You will need the stock drum hubs to mount the GT or Cobra rotors.

I haven't looked at what Steve's kits come with as I put ours together bit by bit about seven years ago but it it comes with the MC, yes, it will be dual type made for the application you specify.  As for the hoses, I just don't know but a quick email to MS will answer all your questions...or he may just jump in here.

Again, welcome to the forum.  Good luck with your project.  And if you're not busy in late Sept. come to the Bash in Vandalia, Ill.  Good times guaranteed.

BB


 


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

7/12/2014 8:18 PM  #4


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Hiddy-Doo....welcome to the best FoMoCo forum on the net.
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

7/13/2014 12:30 AM  #5


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Private message sent Art.

Bob


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

7/13/2014 7:08 AM  #6


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Welcome!  Show us pictures!!!!!


Founding Member of the Perpetually Bewildered Society
 

7/13/2014 7:42 AM  #7


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Welcome to the forum.,Lots of great information here,Don't ever be afraid to ask a Question no matter how  you may think is stupid or embarrassing no one here judges you

Jimmy O

 

7/13/2014 9:35 AM  #8


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Hey guys haha, and thanks bullet bob, that is really informative. I'll be sending steve an email soon.

I was going to post some links and pictures on here, but since I just created an account on here, I am a little limited. Otherwise I'm active on Vintage-Mustang forum!

 

     Thread Starter
 

7/13/2014 9:36 AM  #9


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

rpm wrote:

Private message sent Art.

Bob

I'll reply after I post one more time(it tells me I need to post 3 times before I can send a message back).

     Thread Starter
 

7/13/2014 1:08 PM  #10


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

art70stang wrote:

rpm wrote:

Private message sent Art.

Bob

I'll reply after I post one more time(it tells me I need to post 3 times before I can send a message back).

 Welcome .... as for posting, yes you have to pay your dues, but they are quite low at only 3 posts.
 I'm sure big "Kahuna" will chime in on this one


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

7/14/2014 2:17 PM  #11


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Welcome to FYI.

The power brake pedal is quite different than the manual brake pedal.  I suggest you check out my FAQ page on boosters abd pedals.  I have pics of the booster as well as a Ford original firewall template on there.  I use only Ford rebuilt Bendix boosters for 67-70 power brake conversions.  You cannot beat original parts.  The booster bolts right up with the addition of one hole and removal of the threaded swedged inserts in your pedal support so the booster studs can go through the firewall.  The longer pedal bolts in with a 3/8" pivot bolt and steel tube.  The holes for it are already in your pedal support.

Email me and I will send you the instruction sheets for the disc swaps.  Hopefully your car had 5-lug wheels.  If it had 4-lug, then you will be able to use your spindles but will need some V8 hubs.  I have some if needed.

Do your homework on the Borgeson with a 351C engine.  I have not tried it, but there might be clearance issues,  If you have not already bought the 351C, I would strongly encourage you to go with a Windsor instead.  Whole lot better engine with taller deck height and better rod ratios.  Plus they will still run at low speed, with a whole lot more torque.  And parts are alot easier to come by since alot of them are same as 5.0 parts.

MAster cylinders do not come with the booster kit.  Pick out which one best suits your needs and I have them in stock.  You will need to make new hard lines, but it is alot easier than you think.  Old lines are hard and brittle.  New ones are malleable and easy to form and flare.  One of our cohorts is working on testing a new brake hose for me, but seems to be slow getting things going due to other priorities.  This is NOT a kit where you pull everything out of a box and it fits your particular car.  Anyone that sells you a kit and tells you theirs is that way is likely not enjoying reality.  EAch car is custom fit and you need to have a pretty good understanding of what you are doing.  This forum is here to help, and if you are smart enough to ask ANY QUESTION before you attempt to do the work, then be assured there are no dumb questions.  The expertise is here and will help and guide you, sometimes with more detail than you ever imagined.

Be sure to check out the BASH forum.  Maybe we will see you there.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

7/14/2014 2:43 PM  #12


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

MustangSteve wrote:

Welcome to FYI.
  This forum is here to help, and if you are smart enough to ask ANY QUESTION before you attempt to do the work, then be assured there are no dumb questions.  The expertise is here and will help and guide you, sometimes with more detail than you ever imagined..

Ha, I just sent an email right before you posted (injectedreality). Great to see that you're active in this forum. And that's why I'm here, I'm not a mechanic, mustang specialist, nor do I have any mechanic in my family, but I want to learn.

One thing I forgot to metion was that my car is a orignally a 3 speed with the linkage clutch. I'll be using the cable clutch with the new t5z.

I already bought the cleveland, had a decent deal on it. I thought the 70 4v cleveland had more torque/hp; or maybe just compression (still in the process of learning haha).

Yes, my car has 5 lug all around. About the clearance issue, I'm not sure yet. The guy I bought it from has a vette with a 350 and borgeson. If I recalled correctly his 70 also has a borgeson(Not quite sure) and he is putting a 1971 351c. Borgeson may just take up as much space as the stock, and I'm using cable clutch so there wont be an Z-bar in the way. 

Would pedals come with the kit? 
This is off topic, but is the original throttle cable a universal cable?

Do you use power steering with your cars?

Since I'm already asking, what would be the estimate total costs for this kind of job (brake kits, [Maybe the cobra brakes adapters], lines, misc) all labor would be on me? I want to run 12-13 inch rotors (depending on the clearance, The wheels that I will be running should be 17 inch mag500; mostlikely repro).

EDIT: Have more questions

What differences in master cylinder are there other than being a dual/single bowl and plastic/metal?

Last edited by art70stang (7/14/2014 3:04 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

7/14/2014 2:52 PM  #13


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

http://imgur.com/a/LX3EN
Album showing where I'm at with the project.

     Thread Starter
 

7/15/2014 8:36 AM  #14


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

I am with MS on the Cleveland vs Windsor motor. I had a 70' or 71' Cleveland out of a Mach 1 that I put into a 1957 Ford. From a dead stop it was a dog and took forever to get up to speed. At higher rpm ran real good. I bought a rusted out 70' LTD with a Windsor 351 from the coast near San Luis Obispo with low miles. Swapped the motors and what a difference. The Windsor was alot better off the line and had better fuel economy.

 

7/15/2014 9:31 AM  #15


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Really? I see a lot of praises go to the cleveland 4v.

     Thread Starter
 

7/15/2014 10:43 AM  #16


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

I'll answer here when I get enough time to sit still for a while.  If some of those questions are higher priority than the others, let's start with a couple of those.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

7/15/2014 2:07 PM  #17


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

Another vote for the Windsor, a far superior engine for the street and they can make great power. The 4v Cleveland only shines above 5k rpm, a place most street cars rarely ever see.

Last edited by Rsmach1 (7/15/2014 2:12 PM)

 

7/15/2014 6:27 PM  #18


Re: Hey! New here, 1970 coupe, originally 250 all 4 drums.

I also vote yes on the Winsor engine over the Cleveland, for all  the reasons mentioned. The Cleveland would make a good boat anchor, though. I put a 351W in my 68 (basically the same sized engine compartment) and it fit with lots of room - a great performing engine also.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.