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8/05/2014 10:45 PM  #1


Cylinder inspection advice

Let me lay the background....
This is my first engine disassembly, so feel free to mention obvious advice.
Currently swapping a 5.0 306 into my '66.  While cleaning up the engine, I pulled the exhaust headers off and noticed oil pouring out of one of them.  When I bought the donor car & engine, I didn't notice any smoke during the test run, it sounded fine, spark plugs are not oily or black like they burn oil (like my 200) and there were no oil leaks other than the drain bolt not sealing completely.
I was told the engine has about 10k since rebuild and I can see .030 on the cylinders.  Cylinder walls look good to me, but I'd like some more seasoned review if you guys don't mind.
Is this just a case of me tipping the engine and spilling oil out of the cylinder into the exhaust when I pulled it or do I need to disassemble further and actually pull the cylinders?
First pic is right after I pulled the head.  Oil spilling out is the same exhaust header that was oilly.  Second pic is the actual cylinder that was oilly in the first pic after I wiped it up.

Thanks,
Sooner

 

8/06/2014 9:36 AM  #2


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

The fact that I can see the piston ring in the gap between the piston and the cylinder is of some concern.  The fact the piston itself has severe pitting on it that has been cleaned up is of concern.  You do not know if that is from sitting with water in the cylinder or severe preignition problems.  There is no way that much oil got in there when the engine was running.  It had to have been tipped over and the oil ran past the rings (concern...concern...) into the combustion chamber.

If you saw the engine run and there was no smoke or excessive blowby (evidenced by air flowing outward when the oil fill cap is removed while running) then clean it up and install it and drive it.

It might be a good idea to inspect every cylinder from the top, with the pistons at BDC, then with the pan removed, invert the engine and inspect the pistons from the bottom. You will be looking for cracks or missing pieces of piston.

My concern about the pitted piston is you cannot see the side of the piston to know its condition.  Cast pistons are incredibly inexpensive.  Might be worth looking at.  But, if you ran the engine... and it did OK, then go for it.

If you want a perfect engine, then tear it down, throw the block away, get another virgin block, bore it 0.030", install new pistons and go from there !

If you want to make that one work and run, then tear it down, removing pistons with their rods, and the crank.  Inspect everything.  We will be glad to help.  Just get good clear pictures.  It won't cost you anything but time to do that.  Then at least you know exactly what you have.  Be sure to keep rod caps with the rods they came from, and in the direction they were installed from the factory.  Since it has been rebuilt, you MAY have to determine if the last guy did the job right.  Piston rods have a ROD side and a CRANK side.  The side that faces the adjoining rod will be flat while the side facing the crank throws will have a chamfer.  If you install them backwards, that flat side can damage the crank.
 


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/06/2014 1:17 PM  #3


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

I might add......measure the bores with a machinists rule(at least) and read the bore size. Then try to get a read on the pistons(all of them!) and see if they are +.30 like the bores are suppose to be.
Re-read-and-ponder Mustangsteve's last paragraph. You got it this far.......
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/06/2014 2:30 PM  #4


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Is that pitting? It kind of looks like a carbon build up on the piston face.

 

8/06/2014 3:33 PM  #5


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Tear the engine completely down...take it to an engine rebuilder or suitable machinest... let him hot tank  /mike everything and advise you....jj

Last edited by jerseyjoe (8/06/2014 3:34 PM)


"Never put a question mark where God put a period "  Richard Petty
 

8/06/2014 5:20 PM  #6


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

It might seem like drastic work for a guy who just bought an engine that supposedly should be ready to install and run, but the prior posts are spot on.

Bob


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/06/2014 8:34 PM  #7


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

After taking a second look at pictures...  I can clearly see the dot on the ring telling you which side goes up.  SOMETHING IS TERRIBLY WRONG.

Pull the pistons and crank and take pics and we can avise from there.  If you want to accurately check the block, you need to be able to measure taper and oval, so you need a good dial bore indicator or a machinist that knows what he is doing.

WYAITWYAITWYAITWYAIT...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/06/2014 9:16 PM  #8


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Well damn, that's not what I was hoping to hear.  I guess I got a little too excited to find a car w/ the engine, t5, aluminum driveshaft, computer, etc. all in one donor.
I'll work on further disassembly and see where it leads me.

     Thread Starter
 

8/07/2014 12:19 AM  #9


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Alrighty, successfully pulled the other head, then pulled the pan and removed the cylinder shown in the original post (#3).  I don't see anything wrong with it, but I have an untrained eye.  I didn't pull any other cylinders, since it's getting late. 
I think in the original closeup, what looked like the ring might have been oil reflecting my shop light at the camera.  Here is a new pic of it at TDC.  I took new pics of each cylinder at TDC, before starting the removal.




The Fs were facing toward the front of the engine correctly.

Pic from the undersign of #3 after I loosened the nuts, but before removal


Appreciate the help.

     Thread Starter
 

8/07/2014 12:49 AM  #10


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Piston doesn''t look bad to me,did you check the valveseals on that wet cilinder?

the oil might be comming for above...

Tonie

 

8/07/2014 9:06 AM  #11


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Oil coming from above... Reminds me that I probably should have mentioned this as well in my original post.  I was so focused on the health of cylinders, that I didn't mention this issue that I found.
Anyone know where I could find a replacement part, besides just visiting a junk yard?

     Thread Starter
 

8/07/2014 5:08 PM  #12


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

piston looks ok once it was out of the block. Fords are nice in that the rod and cap are numbered from the factory, and the main caps have the numbers cast in them. The lip locks or bearing tangs go on the same side of each other. when you take the rod cap off, a safety tip is to put something like 2-3 inch pieces of i think 5/16 rubber hose (whatever is snug over the bolt and covers the threads) over the rod bolts so the threads dont nick up the rod journals. Do this for installation as well. You dont want to have any nicks put in the journals at all, it will cause binding and ruin bearings. The small notches on top of the pistons also indicate the front.

That is alot of oil in that cylinder though, make sure the ring gaps are not lined up. I'll try to explain how i put my ring gaps. with the forward facing notch being 12 oclock as reference. the oil ring expander notch or butt joints are at 12 oclock. lower oil ring is at 7 o clock , upper oil ring at 5 o clock, 2nd ring at 11 oclock and top ring at 5 o clock. reason why the oil ring gaps are on the same side and not say at 1 is that you dont want it to move and overlap the expander butt joint otherwise the ring gaps are off the thrust sides and the oil/combustion gases have the longes way to travel.

I take it the pan was full when you rolled the engine over, maybe could have got a little oil in the chamber but that is kind of alot so maybe the ring gaps weren't set up great or the oil was coming in from the valve guides like someone else mentioned. (after looking at your piston pictures again you can see the top ring and 2nd ring gaps are lined up hopefully they werent installed that way)

that hole in the valve  cover baffle isnt a big deal, the bigger question perhaps is why is there a hole in the valve cover baffle.

Last edited by MachTJ (8/07/2014 5:11 PM)

 

8/07/2014 6:09 PM  #13


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

soonerfan wrote:

Oil coming from above... Reminds me that I probably should have mentioned this as well in my original post.  I was so focused on the health of cylinders, that I didn't mention this issue that I found.
Anyone know where I could find a replacement part, besides just visiting a junk yard?

 

I have one you can have for the cost of shipping.

Ramses@mustangsteve.com

 

8/07/2014 9:28 PM  #14


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Does the engine have some kind of roller rockers on it or something?  That is usually why valve cover baffles get modified...

The optical dilusion got me apparently. But glad you tore it down.  Use some carb or brake cleaner to remove that carbon around the ring lands.

You do not want the ring gaps on the thrust sides of the pistons.  If the piston notch was 12 o clock, make top ring gap beween two and four, or eight and ten o clock.  Second ring goes 180 from top ring.  Oil ring not so critical, but usually opposite the second ring's gap.  Or some similar variation.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

8/08/2014 6:01 PM  #15


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

MustangSteve wrote:

You do not want the ring gaps on the thrust sides of the pistons.  If the piston notch was 12 o clock, make top ring gap beween two and four, or eight and ten o clock.  Second ring goes 180 from top ring.  Oil ring not so critical, but usually opposite the second ring's gap.  Or some similar variation.

Wouldn't that actually put the gaps on the thrust sides?

 

8/09/2014 9:02 PM  #16


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

Yes, I believe the rockers are rollers.  They look new and have Ford SVO 1.60 8351 stamped on the top of them.

Googling for ring gap location, I found the following recommendation in How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines by Tom Monroe
Front = 12, Compression Ring between 1 & 2 and 2nd Compression ring between 10 & 11.
Autozone's docs google found contrast with Tom's info though.
Thanks for the advice.

     Thread Starter
 

8/10/2014 7:01 AM  #17


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

soonerfan wrote:

Yes, I believe the rockers are rollers.  They look new and have Ford SVO 1.60 8351 stamped on the top of them.

Googling for ring gap location, I found the following recommendation in How to Rebuild Small-Block Ford Engines by Tom Monroe
Front = 12, Compression Ring between 1 & 2 and 2nd Compression ring between 10 & 11.
Autozone's docs google found contrast with Tom's info though.
Thanks for the advice.

One of the best books out there....jj


"Never put a question mark where God put a period "  Richard Petty
 

8/10/2014 7:55 AM  #18


Re: Cylinder inspection advice

MachTJ wrote:

MustangSteve wrote:

You do not want the ring gaps on the thrust sides of the pistons.  If the piston notch was 12 o clock, make top ring gap beween two and four, or eight and ten o clock.  Second ring goes 180 from top ring.  Oil ring not so critical, but usually opposite the second ring's gap.  Or some similar variation.

Wouldn't that actually put the gaps on the thrust sides?

DOH !!!  Yes... Should have said in relation to the rod, not notch.  That makes it 90 degrees off...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


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