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  •  » It's been a long time....But I am back

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    8/03/2014 7:47 PM  #1

    mnsunet
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    Registered: 8/04/2014
    Posts: 11

    It's been a long time....But I am back

    Hello again everyone, I hate to admit but its been a long time since I participated here. Couple years already I think. So long in fact that I had to re-register because I forgot my log in.
    Anyway, 65 coupe with a 289 via a C-4.
    The car would start intermittantly so I changed the neutral safety switch, now wont start at all.
    Two question, I bypassed the switch  and no luck, whats the easiest way to check the ignition switch itself?

    Second, when I installed the neutral switch, I must have somehow damaged a seal. My car never dropped a drip of anything and now it is leaking from the area of the switch. How hard is it to replace the seal (s) on the tranny in this area.

    Its really good to be back, I see a lot of names and look forward to catching up.

    Kurt

     

     

    8/03/2014 7:59 PM  #2

    Tubo
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    From: Ft. Walton Beach, Florida
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,777

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Kurt??? Hmmmmm I don't seem to remember.
    Post a photo of that Stang, that'll help me.
    Glad Yer back.

    Tubo
     

    If it ain't broke, I haven't modified it Yet
     

    8/03/2014 8:16 PM  #3

    ultrastang
    I FYI 24-7

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    From: Camden, Arkansas
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 570

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/1308-how-to-troubleshoot-neutral-safety-switches/

     

    8/03/2014 8:39 PM  #4

    terry
    Senior 24-7 FYI Addict

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    From: vandalia, illinois
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 1,850

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Tubo wrote:

    Kurt??? Hmmmmm I don't seem to remember.
    Post a photo of that Stang, that'll help me.
    Glad Yer back.

    Tubo
     

    I'm with Tubo!  CRS cant remember SH#^!
    welcome back Kurt!

     

    8/03/2014 9:06 PM  #5

    Rudi
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    From: Stuck in the 50's Welland Ca
    Registered: 4/01/2013
    Posts: 3,786

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    mnsunet wrote:

    Hello again everyone, I hate to admit but its been a long time since I participated here. Couple years already I think. So long in fact that I had to re-register because I forgot my log in.
    Anyway, 65 coupe with a 289 via a C-4.
    The car would start intermittantly so I changed the neutral safety switch, now wont start at all.
    Two question, I bypassed the switch  and no luck, whats the easiest way to check the ignition switch itself?

    Second, when I installed the neutral switch, I must have somehow damaged a seal. My car never dropped a drip of anything and now it is leaking from the area of the switch. How hard is it to replace the seal (s) on the tranny in this area.

    Its really good to be back, I see a lot of names and look forward to catching up.

    Kurt

     

    The C-4 was notorious for leaking shift shaft seals and often a new "O" ring will cure the drip. On higher mileage vehicles the hole in the case wore oblong.
     When I had the C-4 in my car I had to bore out the shaft hole and put a bushing in it for leak free operation.

    Last edited by Rudi (8/03/2014 9:08 PM)

    Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
     

    8/03/2014 9:39 PM  #6

    MS
    Forum Originator

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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 11,734

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Seal replacement requires removal of the shift selector shaft internally.

    The N/S switch is simply an ON/OFF switch and must be adjusted (note the radiused slots in it ) so that it has continuity in park and neutral only.  Also, sloppy shifter bushings (in shifter itself) can cause the shift rod to be out of position and can cause erratic behavior because it does not properly position the shifter rod. 

    Set the adjustment position so it has continuity in PARK, make sure your shifter lever bushings are good, and the rest of the N/S switch should take care of itself.

    You will need to pull the pan and remove the valve body and selector shaft in order to replace the selector shaft seal.

    Last edited by MustangSteve (8/03/2014 9:40 PM)

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    8/04/2014 6:19 AM  #7

    wsinsle
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    From: Belle Vernon, PA
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

         Welcome back, now I'll have that song in my head all day. You stated the car won't start, thats a little vague, did you mean the starter won't turn over. If so a few simple checks. The diagram below may help show if you have the neutral switch jumpered properly. With key in start you should have positive at the 'S' terminal on the solenoid. Is the solenoid picking up? If so you should have positive on both large terminals. If the solenoid is picking up, check your main power connections. Also the starter could be going bad, worn out brushes inside can cause intermittent start.
         You'll still need to adjust the neutral switch as Steve stated if not already done. One other thing, if you want to check the ignition switch: Find the red-blue wire comming from the ignition. This goes to the neutral switch. Unplug it, you should have positive there when in the start position.

    Last edited by wsinsle (8/04/2014 6:23 AM)

    If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
     

    8/04/2014 8:40 PM  #8

    mnsunet
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    Registered: 8/04/2014
    Posts: 11

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Thanks for the info so far all, I need to be a little more specific, sorry, when I say won't start, I mean to say the starter will not engage.
    When I turn the key all the way to start, nothing. When the ignition is in the "run" position, I have fan, turn signals, etc....but nothing when I go to the "start" postion.
    I now know the safety switch is not the issue, I used the old switch, and with a continuity tester found the Park and neuteral position and just reinstalled it loose in the engine bay, (I know,,,,not for permanent  use!) and still nothing. I measure good voltage to the input side of the starter relay, and can jump the relay and the engine cranks fine.
    I guess I need someone to turn the key to start, then I can look for voltage off the front of the relay, correct? and will I also see voltage at the ignition side of the neuteral safety switch disconnect site? Lastly, the other wire to the safety switch is the backup lights, correct? Shouldn't there always be power to this wire when the ignition is in run mode?

    Thanks all for your help, we will get it figured out.
    -Kurt
     

       •Thread Starter
     

    8/04/2014 8:50 PM  #9

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 11,734

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Here is a tip for when you need a helper to check voltage...

    Take a backup lamp bulb and solder two wires to it.  One to the solder tipped terminal and one to the bulb body.  Wrap the bare end of the bulb with electrical tape to keep it from shorting on metal surfaces.  Make the wires about 3' long, and place a small alligator clip on both bare wire ends.  Then when you need to see if something under the hood is making contact when you hit the key, you can just watch the bulb placed under the hood.  You will actually get good at determining if it is getting full 12 volts or just 9 volts by the brightness of the bulb.  I used one like that for many years until I stepped on it one day and never bothered to solder in another bulb.  I guess you could use a light socket so the bulb is replaceable easily.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    8/06/2014 8:43 PM  #10

    mnsunet
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    Registered: 8/04/2014
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Thanks Steve, I did as suggested, made the test light with a male and female bullet connection so I could just put it in a series at the starter solenoid. Cleaned the battery terminals just to be safe.
    When I turned the key to start, the bulb lit! But no crank of the starter.
    My question, if the neutral safety switch was not in the correct position, would I get the light like I did? And secondly, does this sound like its the starter?
    Thanks all!

     

       •Thread Starter
     

    8/07/2014 6:31 AM  #11

    wsinsle
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    From: Belle Vernon, PA
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

         You don't want to connect in series, one end of the light connected to the 'S' terminal as shown in the picture. The other end connect to a good clean ground. If it lights with the key in start you are getting power through the neutral switch. Next move the jumper comming from the light to the large post on the solenoid that is going to the starter, other end still connected to ground. This should light when key is in start. If it don't, it is either the solenoid or bad cable connection. If it does light still can be a bad cable or connection but chances are the starter is bad.
         If it lights in the last test, you could move the light to where the cable connects to the starter and try again. Just be careful running wires down there. Good luck!

    If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
     

    8/07/2014 8:38 PM  #12

    mnsunet
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Thanks wsinsle, so I did as told,
    When I connected the test light to the s terminal of the solenoid, turned the key to the start position and nothing. When I hooked the light to the wire that would normally be on the S terminal I got it to light when in the start position. So I hooked up the soleniod again and tried the test light from the starter side of the soleniod and got nothing.....looks like its the solenoid.
    I did a quick pliers bypass of the solenoid and the starter cranked fine.
    I swear before this all started that it was the neutral safety switch because it seemed to start when I "jiggled" the shift lever or worse yet, slammed it way into park. Could it have been the solenoid all along?  arggggggh! Time to hit NAPA in the morning and replace the solenoid and see.
     

       •Thread Starter
     

    8/08/2014 6:21 AM  #13

    wsinsle
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    From: Belle Vernon, PA
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

         Sorry, I guess I was being a little vague this time. When I said to hook the light to the 'S' terminal I meant with all the wires connected. But from what you are describing my first guess would be the solenoid.

    If this forum can't fix it, it isn't broke.
     

    8/10/2014 7:07 PM  #14

    mnsunet
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    Well a new solenoid did the trick. Go figure, but I still know I had problems with the neutral safety switch because I have to push too hard in park for it to work.
    So I hooked up the new switch and did the adjustment in neutral with the drill bit, hole etc... I still have a  hard time in park and must push rather hard on the gear lever to engage.
    So I hooked up an ohm meter so I can hear where it is since I am doing this alone. When in park it is just a smidge out, but fine in neuteral. Can I adjust the shift linkage that goes from the pivot of the gear selector rod to the tranny  just a smidge? Would that be the correct adjustment?

    Thanks All.
     

       •Thread Starter
     

    8/11/2014 1:36 PM  #15

    Pablo
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    From: Georgetown, Texas
    Registered: 4/12/2013
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    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    If you adjust the shifter linkage, then you'll have to re-adjust the neutral safety switch.  You might check to ensure that there is not too much slop in the shifter and linkage.
    Enjoy

     

    8/11/2014 8:25 PM  #16

    mnsunet
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    Registered: 8/04/2014
    Posts: 11

    Re: It's been a long time....But I am back

    All seems to work fine, just adjusted the linkage a tweak and now it works great in park, and in neutral.
    Thanks to all for the input. I knew when I came back I could count on this forum. I was worried you all would make me beg!
     

       •Thread Starter
     

     

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