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  •  » bad axle wrap :(

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    5/11/2013 10:27 PM  #1

    jeremy
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    Registered: 4/14/2013
    Posts: 137

    bad axle wrap :(

    OK, so today my friend and I rebuilt my holley 670 and put it on my 66 coupe...I was quickly rewarded with a car that I swear ran like it had efi.

    I was also rewarded with my first experience of what I believe is called axle wrap.  On a hard launch I heard a VERY loud bang from the right rear .....yes everything is tight back there.  Based on research it seems my spring and axle must be twisting...URGH...

    COMBO is as follows:...ford racing 5.0 crate motor, estimated 325-350hp flywheel, t5 trans and 8.8 rear with 4.5 mid eye leafs out back....

    so what now?  i've run those cheapy traction bars before, but from my understanding it can negatively effect handling right? I need the best option and cheapest for preventing this wind up scenario...I can't even launch on street tires anything more than half throttle until I take care of this.

    Thanks!!

     

    5/12/2013 3:51 PM  #2

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
    Registered: 4/02/2013
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    Other than going with a set of traction bars......add a 1/2 leaf to the FRONT half of the spring pack. Maybe new bushings of even poly bushings might help.
    6sal6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    5/12/2013 4:57 PM  #3

    Haywired
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    From: Vero Beach Fl.
    Registered: 4/07/2013
    Posts: 8

    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    I had the same axle wrap, added a set of Shelby style underrider bars.
    I have not found any adverse handling effects.

     

    5/12/2013 5:40 PM  #4

    jeremy
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    I've been hearing great things about caltracs too...anyone had the chance to compare them with red Shelby pieces?   Ive already got poly bushings I believe.. so I'm onto the next step

       •Thread Starter
     

    5/12/2013 6:42 PM  #5

    MS
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    From: Canyon Lake, Texas
    Registered: 1/24/2013
    Posts: 12,155

    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    I had the Shelby underrides on my 66, and still got axle hop with the 351W and t5.  I am taking them off now and installing the fiberglass monoleaf springs which supposedly do not wrap up.  If you want to use underrides, I will make you a good deal on them...just do not expect miracles.

    The real cure is a set of decent springs.  A set of the "performance" 4-leaf replacement springs will do the job, and the 4-1/2 leaf or 5-leaf will also work but at the expense of some ride quality.

    I had a 70 fastback that had wheel hop like crazy.  It went away completely when I installed a set of used MACH I rear springs, which have less arch and a re slightly stiffer than the stock 351W 70 fastback springs that came on the car.

    The problem with just adding leafs to what you have...is that you still have what you have.  The main leaf is where the problem usually occurs.  It needs to be stiffer and slightly thicker to keep the spring from bending at the main leaf, right behind the front bushing and in front of the next leaf.

    Caltracs do work well from what I have heard from others on here, but I have never had a set.   I think Kaz has them on his 428CJ 69 MACH I.

    Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
     

    5/12/2013 11:22 PM  #6

    CraigMBA
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    From: Lemoore CA
    Registered: 4/12/2013
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    Haywired wrote:

    I had the same axle wrap, added a set of Shelby style underrider bars.
    I have not found any adverse handling effects.

    They are beyond horrible.  They fix the wheel hop by making the effective spring rate infinite.  Which is a problem, especially if you hit a bump while in a corner.

    I hear, if you use them with the CobraAutomotive spring rods, they get a little better.  I took them off and pledged to just take it easy at stop lights from now on.

     

    5/12/2013 11:39 PM  #7

    jeremy
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    Thx all for the input.. I'm just gonna save for the Caltrac units.... I built this car for one reason... I want to punish it.... I'm looking forward to running slicks at the quarter mile soon.. but I still want to throw it around the corner's on occasion..... so for now no more than half throttle from a stop

       •Thread Starter
     

    5/13/2013 9:25 AM  #8

    Hornman
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    From: Mansfield, Texas
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    jeremy wrote:

    Thx all for the input.. I'm just gonna save for the Caltrac units.... I built this car for one reason... I want to punish it.... I'm looking forward to running slicks at the quarter mile soon.. but I still want to throw it around the corner's on occasion..... so for now no more than half throttle from a stop

    If you are serious about dragging your car, you should seriously consider running a ladder bar. Weld it to the rear end housing, make it long enough so that the front pivot point is even with the front U-joint. With the ladder bar the rear end cannot twist, so no spring wrapup.

     

    5/13/2013 2:40 PM  #9

    CraigMBA
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    From: Lemoore CA
    Registered: 4/12/2013
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    Hornman wrote:

    jeremy wrote:

    Thx all for the input.. I'm just gonna save for the Caltrac units.... I built this car for one reason... I want to punish it.... I'm looking forward to running slicks at the quarter mile soon.. but I still want to throw it around the corner's on occasion..... so for now no more than half throttle from a stop

    If you are serious about dragging your car, you should seriously consider running a ladder bar. Weld it to the rear end housing, make it long enough so that the front pivot point is even with the front U-joint. With the ladder bar the rear end cannot twist, so no spring wrapup.

    For a street car with any cornering manners, those are even worse than the Shelby traction bars.  They won't let the axle twist, but they won't let it articulate either.

     

    5/13/2013 3:07 PM  #10

    Hornman
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    From: Mansfield, Texas
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    CraigMBA wrote:

    For a street car with any cornering manners, those are even worse than the Shelby traction bars.  They won't let the axle twist, but they won't let it articulate either.

    If you are looking at a steady diet of hot laps around Lime Rock or Road Atlanta, then yes I would agree that a more purpose built suspension is in order. But if Jeremy just plans the occasional autocross plus some dragstrip work, I doubt the lack of articulation will be felt.  The purpose of the long ladder bar is to allow the leaf springs to do their work without getting caught up in torque reaction. Granted coil springs would be better with a ladder bar, but the leaf springs work well enough. 

    Last edited by Hornman (5/13/2013 3:12 PM)

     

    5/13/2013 5:26 PM  #11

    6sally6
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    From: Surfside Beach,SC
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    HOW ABOUT AIR BAGS WHEN YOU GO TO THE STRIP?! (stupid button!) That way you can have your cake and.....
    6s6

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    5/13/2013 5:29 PM  #12

    6sally6
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    6sally6 wrote:

    Other than going with a set of traction bars......add a 1/2 leaf to the FRONT half of the spring pack. Maybe new bushings of even poly bushings might help.
    6sal6

     
    That was the cure for the 60's MoPar drag cars. Have the half leaf come all the way to the front bushing. Clamps(2) on that front half stiffens it too. Sorta like a traction bar because it keeps the front of the spring from wrapping up.
     

    Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
     

    5/13/2013 7:01 PM  #13

    DC
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    From: Marshall, MI
    Registered: 4/01/2013
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    Re: bad axle wrap :(

    The ladder bar idea is good, but if you do it like a torque arm along beside the drive shaft and pivot like was said at the front U-joint, you will get rid of all axle warp and not hurt your cornering. That assumes you use a heim or ball joint at the front. The air bags are a good idea to get rid of the rest of the wheel hop tendencies and work real well at the strip.

     

     

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