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Beautiful - that's the kind of instruction I need since I'm not your typical FYI Ford expert. Thank you!!
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Novi Rick wrote:
Bulb backwards? Didn't know a bulb could be installed backwards.
If the turn signal bulb is backwards, why would the brake light bulb work normally? And the turn signals worked correctly before my over charging issues. Connections, swittch or grounds seem more likely. How do I go about testing for this electrical issue?
Man, there is so much that I don't know it scares me to think that I put any of this car back together and that anything works at all!
Rick, I tend to look for the simple things first. Kind of like the headlight switch thing. It just made sense the switch was the easiest and most likley thing to go bad, and that is what the problem was.
If the brake lights and turn signals were working before, then the bulb is probably installed correctly. An 1157 bulb can be forced in backwards and it makes things go haywire with the voltage. The bulbs can also be installed in the correct position, but the contacts can pop out of their sockets and short against each other, and that is not visible from anywhere except inside the bulb socket. If you removed a bulb to inspect it, then double-check. From past experience, bulbs that do not burn with full brightness usually point to a bad ground somewhere. Sounds like wsinsle has you on the right path for trouble shooting the problem.
One thing I have learned through lots of troubleshooting and from lots of forum questions and answers is that one should NEVER exepect that everything is assembled as it should be. I have learned to read between the lines when alot of problems present themselves. Sometimes a few good pictures will alert someone to a problem that you might never have considered.
The cars have relatively simple systems on them, even the electrical system. The solutions to the problems are more often than not a very simple solution to a very simple problem. Most people try to make the problems more complex than they really are.
Last edited by MustangSteve (5/15/2013 11:56 AM)
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Rick if you haven't forund anyting yet you can check the other side of the plugs where the wires leave the steering column and got out to the lights. First you will need to remove all four turn bulbs. You will get a false reading throught the bulbs. Good time to check sockets for bent terminal and bulb placement as MS said.Make sure they are all correct bulbs. Pull the flasher and don't push the brake during testing. Once again measure ohms from each pin to ground. Should be infinite.If you want to jumper positive to see if each light works replace bulbs. The best thing to do is make a jumper with a fuse in the middle about 20 amp. That way if you short something out you blow the fuse.One end of the jumper to 12 volt. The 2 wire plug goes to the rear lights, jumper to them one at a time. On the 6 prong plug the white/blue and the green/white go to the front bulbs. Jumper 12 volts to them one at a time. One bulb should light each time you jumper12 volts to a plug pin.
Good LUCK
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Thanks - I'll try to get my helper on this tonight. Hopefully it's something easy to get at and repair if necessary. Thanks to all who contributed to our education.
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Rick don't know if this will help you or anyone else. The online prints for 65-66 Mustangs don't show clearly how the turn signal works, so I made this print. If anyone finds something wrong with this please let me know.
Last edited by wsinsle (5/15/2013 4:48 PM)
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wsinsle - you got me little bit confused. Could please check the wire numbering on your drawing. I think # 9 wire and # 2 wire labels are reversed. I checked continuity (I got some help) on the TS switch and it checks good in all positions but when we compared our actual meter readings, they don't match with your drawing. #9 should go to the left rear and #2 should go to the right front. I found a wiring schematic for the car and confirmed my test results.
Now if the switch tests good, I will need to test for a short somewhere between the underdash connection and both front and rear bulb sockets (I guess).
My son was working on the switch last night and he noticed that one of the wires - #3 green with white - got hot and he smelled something like a burning smell. Pulled the switch, inspected it and I couldn't see anything wrong with this wire (no cuts, scrapes or discoloration) on the switch. So maybe it's a short somewhere going to the front TS light or should I be looking for something else?
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Rick you are absolutelly correct, numbers crossed, sorry for the confusion. The white/green wire sounds like the problem, the brake lights work so probably not rear. The problem seemed to be in the left side and white/ green is the letf front. TRY THIS: Plug in the 2 conductor plug at the steering column, this goes to the rear. Lights will blink faster with just rear lights .Plug in the 6 connector plug. Unplug connector at fire wall. (I think MS or some one said front turn signal goes through this plug) Try the turn signa ifl the short seems to appear the problem is between the 6 prong plug and fire wall plug. If not problem between fire wall plug and head lights. Or you can try the same check with the ohm meter.
CORRECTED DIAGRAM
Last edited by wsinsle (5/16/2013 4:33 PM)
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Eureka! At least we think so. We found the short in the turn signal fixture. Don't know if it was the extra voltage or defective manufacturing or both, but we found our smoking gun - a direct short between the turn signal power and the ground to the bulb base. We'll have to see if we can repair or if we have to replace.
Thank you to all who helped us work this out - couldn't do it without you guys.
Now we have to put it all back together and get this thing safely back on the road.
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There are two spring loaded contacts in the bottom of the bulb base. If one pops out when you remove the bulb, you will experience what you found. Usually they can be inserted back into their sockets so the bulb can be installed. If they won't stay in there, grab the wires behind the bulb socket and put some tension on them to overcome the spring pressure until you get the bulb in.
The courtesy lights under the dash only have one contact, and they are real bad about that issue as well.
Glad you figured it out.
It is always something simple.
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Glad you found it, seems to me MS suggested something like that. Hope I didn't chase you around to much! Sure is a good feeling when you find a problem like that.
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Picture of the problem.
The brown wire is the ground and is attached to the copper split ring contact. This provides the ground the bulb base. Somehow, the blue turn signal wire engaged the grounding ring (defect or over charging?) resulting in the short.
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Rick if you want my opinion, I would say that was deffinitely a defect. The over charging could have caused roughly 25% more current. With the head lights on steady the extra current could heat up and damage the headlight sw. (That is just a guess it may have been defective also.) The left front turn bulb draws much much less cuuent than the head lights. So an extra 25% current at that point would not do that much damage. There had to be some kind of short there from the start.
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I'm back.
Bought a new turn signal / parking light fixture. Took it back because it was defective - poorly assembled (got to pay more attention when I pick parts up at the store).
Exchanged that light for another and on this one you need to hold bulb in tightly for it to light.
While testing with the replacement light we also noticed that we no longer have a dash turn signal indicator light. Bulb looks good. Used to work both sides, then one side only, now neither side works.
Brake lights - good.
Rear Turn Signal - good (but blinks faster than it probably should)
Headlights / taillights - good
Parking "lights" - good?
I noticed on both front parking lights, when turn signal only is activated, the dim filiament is lit. With the parking light on it is very bright and you can hardly see the turn filament blink on and off. I seem to recall that this was like this when I first installed and tested my electrical and before I had any electrical issues. Shouldn't this be the other way around - brighter with the blinker, dimmer with the parking light?
I am thinking that either the turn signal fixtures are wired backwards or the headlight harness is wired backward. Should I cut the headlight harness and reverse the wiring? Where would be the best place to do this - inside the engine bay or underneath at the lights (two splices required)?
Really frustrating!
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Rick getting ready to leave work try 1 quick test.Unplug both front turn signals up front. Try your signals with just rear. Does the signal on the dash blink?
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Unplugged the front lamps, rear lights blink - no dash board signal.
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Try this. Unplug 6 pin at steering column. Unplug park/turn signal. Remove bulbs on turn signal in dash ( hope this isn't to much trouble) At 6,pin measure ohms for the 2 and 3 wire to ground, should be infinite. Now at font car, at turn signal jumper 2 wire to ground. At 6 pin near column measure ohms of 2wire to ground, should be near zero. This will check continuity of th 2 wire. Do the same with the 3 wire. You can also ground the left and right turn in the dash and measure 6 pin to ground.
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I think I have this figured out (finally). I believe a part of my problem is / has been poor quality replacement parts (though if given a choice between good, better & best, I always choose best). I fiddled with the turn signal switch and I finally got everything to work consistently at the moment. However, if I wiggle the TS switch a little it may just stop working. It is also intermittent so sometime when I wiggle it no problem. Sometimes when I wiggle it, doesn't work. Will try to find a better quality switch if possible. Bought the best repop part NPD has to offer.
I also noticed that the die cast steering column collar that the TS switch is mounted to is broken where the metal pin for the TS switch lever is mounted. Need one of these collars if anyone has one to spare.
Thanks for everyone's help. If I ever get to a bash, I owe a round.
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I'll swap you the good collar for the broken one. I just need one that will bolt up to the column, even with no switch in it.
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MustangSteve - I sent you a private message. Rick
Online!
To add to the confusion........
WYIT you can jumper the taillight connection(on the headlight switch) to the front parking light connection.. This will give you front parking lights that burn when the headlights(and tail lights) are on. Kind of a cool mod to do on these older cars.
As you know....when the headlights are pulled on....the factory set-up makes the front parking lights go off.
I mean.....you got the headlight switch out anyhow!......
6sally6
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6sally6 wrote:
To add to the confusion........
WYIT you can jumper the taillight connection(on the headlight switch) to the front parking light connection.. This will give you front parking lights that burn when the headlights(and tail lights) are on. Kind of a cool mod to do on these older cars.
As you know....when the headlights are pulled on....the factory set-up makes the front parking lights go off.
I mean.....you got the headlight switch out anyhow!......
6sally6
Someone here - JamesW ? had a diagram that Bradster had posted a few years back with that headlight switch mod on it.
Actually - found it here:
Last edited by Ron68 (5/24/2013 5:47 PM)
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