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6/05/2013 2:39 PM  #1


Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Hello Everyone,

I have an issue/s with my 96 cobra mod motor that im running on 65 coupe, some times I get the MIL on with code P0175 which is TOO RICH ON BANK 2. I checked for exhaust/vacuum leaks and found none, upstream O2 sensor on bank 2 shows 0.9 v most of the time which means is runing rich. I swapped O2 sensors from bank to bank and I still get same results that tell me that bank 2 is rich, i swapped injectors bank to bank, swapped coils from bank to bank, swapped plug wires bank to bank and i always got same results TOO RICH BANK 2. I removed all spark plugs and 1,2,3,4,6,8 plugs looked normal plugs 5 and 7 were black those corespond to bank 2, the exhaust does smell rich. On the pics you can see the difference on the plugs, the dark ones are from cylinders #5 and #7. Every time I did the swaps I always got plugs 5 and 7 dark like that. Can someone shine some light on me Great forum BTW




 

 

6/05/2013 5:37 PM  #2


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

First, I am no EFI expert.  Does your Cobra engine have the air valves still intact in the intake manifold?  I wonder if a couple of those could bestuck or otherwise inop causing a problem.  Some of that MORE TO GO WRONG engine parts they just had to add...  Lastly, I am no EFI expert.


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

6/05/2013 5:52 PM  #3


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Try cleaning the MAF sensor.......use the correct spray cleaner....don't touch the wire....more help on the way if that doesn't help...

 

6/05/2013 6:51 PM  #4


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Thanx steve, you might be on to something, if you are talking about the IMRCs yes they are on the engine. I remember reading something about themi know for a fact that they can give problems so im just gonna take them apart and clean them ;) hopefully that helps.

Josh thanx for your reply too but i already cleaned the MAF sensor and i did use MAF sensor cleaner.
👍👍

     Thread Starter
 

6/05/2013 7:32 PM  #5


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

When you swapped injectors did you check the o-rings? Does the engine run rough like it's misfiring?
 

 

6/05/2013 8:06 PM  #6


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Raymond- the engine idles good I did check all the o-ring and replaced 2 that were bad, if the problem were the o-rings wouldnt the bad plugs move to bank 1 since the injectors were swaped from bank to bank?

Thanx raymond

     Thread Starter
 

6/05/2013 8:15 PM  #7


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

My only thought is the IMRCs. Do those cylinders have any vacuum ports or anything different from the rest? I'm purely spitballing here, but could a bad intake manifold gasket between the two cause a rich condition but not a poor idle?

 

6/05/2013 8:27 PM  #8


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

I believe a compression and leakdown test comparing those two cylinders to the other 6 would be time well spent, also.

 

6/05/2013 8:41 PM  #9


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Darren,
As a matter a fact i did do a compression check and this is what i got, 1=200  2=200  3=200  4=200
5=190  6=190  7=195  8=195 that was PSI. I havent done a leakdown test but im leaning towards the IMRCs too so i think im gonna clean them soon..

Thanx everyone.

     Thread Starter
 

6/05/2013 8:55 PM  #10


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

here's something to read too.............http://www.svtmustangcobraclub.com/media/pdfs/tech/IMRC_Cleaning.pdf

Last edited by josh-kebob (6/05/2013 9:36 PM)

 

6/05/2013 9:30 PM  #11


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Hey josh that link is not working!! 😱

     Thread Starter
 

6/05/2013 9:36 PM  #12


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

try it now.........i just did an edit to the link and it works for me.............sorry

 

6/05/2013 10:31 PM  #13


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Thank you again josh. It works now, ill keep you guys updated 👌

     Thread Starter
 

6/05/2013 11:28 PM  #14


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

darren wrote:

My only thought is the IMRCs. Do those cylinders have any vacuum ports or anything different from the rest? I'm purely spitballing here, but could a bad intake manifold gasket between the two cause a rich condition but not a poor idle?

A leaking intake manifold will give you a "too lean bank 2 or bank 1" code. I had to replace the intake manifold gasket and all the formed O-ring seals on my daughter's 2000 Explorer V6. The seals get hard and shrink and the too lean condition happened in the mornings when the engine was cold. It would run rought but after it got up to temp, it would run okay.


68 coupe - 351W, 4R70W, 9" 3.25 -- 65 convertible - 289 4v, C4, 8" 3.00
 

6/06/2013 5:41 PM  #15


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

65svt

When it throw the CEL code?  Prior to that, was it running and driving ok?
Had you done any work on it before the code?
Are you using a K&N type air filter?
 

 

6/06/2013 9:06 PM  #16


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

No work has been done prior to CEL coming on. As far as i noticed the engine idles ok but it hesitates upon take off, I do have k&n filter thats why i clean the MAF sensor regularly but if the MAF was giving a bad reading wont it be too rich on both banks?

Thanx josh for ur help 👌

     Thread Starter
 

6/06/2013 9:30 PM  #17


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

do you have the stock fuel pressure regulator or aftermarket? stock regulator can't be adjusted....what about doing a fuel pressure test and see what reading you get?  i don't know off the top of my head what is considered "normal" pressure but, could find out easy. vac leak(s), fuel, MAF, injector issues always are associated with this CEL code.........i read too that one guy had a bad EGR gasket....not sure if i'm helping but, i chased vac leak(s) on my 98 F-150 for awhile and with the help of another forum, solved it............two 90 degree rubber vac elbows, under the upper intake that support the PCV valve were cracked, rotted and had a hole in them.......drove me mad.....$20 fix and it was purring again...

 

6/07/2013 12:48 AM  #18


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

It does have a non adjustable fuel pressure reg and i did check that and it was with in specs 39 PSI engine on the vacuum unhooked. With engine on it was about 29 PSI with about 20" of vacuum. All the emission stuff was removed (egr etc.) so the computer was reprogramed so i wont get any codes, I did check for vacuum and exhaust leaks but didnt find any but i can check for that some more.. Thanx josh

Last edited by 65svt (6/07/2013 12:50 AM)

     Thread Starter
 

6/07/2013 5:54 AM  #19


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Had the same vac leak on my 2000 Expedition as josh-kebob describes. Along the lines of Ron68's reply about causing a too lean code to throw, if the computer thought it was lean because of a vacuum leak on the other two cylinders on the bank, and fattened up the fuel curve to compensate, wouldn't the cylinders without the vacuum leak get fuel washed plugs?
I'm just throwing out "what-if" scenarios here..... a buddy who is a jet mechanic and myself can feed off one anothers suggestions and figure some pretty obscure stuff out.
*Edit... just re-read the OP post about the rich code.... too early for me, sorry.
I'm still leaning towards something non computer related being the culprit.

Last edited by darren (6/07/2013 5:58 AM)

 

6/07/2013 4:38 PM  #20


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

Here's another great resource for you to read........google, troubleshootmyvehicle.com
In the Ford section, scroll down and find the 4.6L & 5.4L category; click on "all articles: 4.6 and 5.4L " ......Then, scroll down the page to the section covering, "diagose PO172 & PO175 codes", click on that and read up on how to troubleshoot this issue...

There'll be a test in the morning.........

Last edited by josh-kebob (6/07/2013 4:42 PM)

 

6/18/2013 10:40 AM  #21


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

UPDATE LONGGGGGG!!!  

Ive been doing alot of testing for RICH ON BANK 2, I checked the IMRCs to see if they were opening at 3200 rpm and to my surprise they were not opening at all but the weird part was that i wasn't getting any codes for that, so i got that fixed and the IMRCs work how they should now The issue was that i was missing a ground for the IMRC controller. I test drove it and I dindnt feel any hesitation until it started to smoke (wasn't sure if it was blue or white smoke ) on acceleration on any gear so I parked it checked oil for coolant and checked coolant for oil and everything was normal. I remove plugs to check them they were normal except for #5 and #7 were dark but #7 was wet with OIL, I looked inside of cylinders all looked normal to me except #5 piston looked darker than the other and a little wet also piston on cylinder #7 had oil stting there oil was black i would say there was like about 1 TEASPOON of oil sitting inside #7 piston all the other pistons looked normal and dry. I checked plug wires and plugs to see if they were wet with oil on the outside and they were dry so the oil didnt come from valve cover. I dried the oil from pistons gapped spark plugs and put them back on I did put new #5 and #7 plugs cus the old ones were black I started engine (starts like normal) but after 1 minute iddleing it starts smoking I think its blue smoke so I stop engine and check plugs and again plug #7 was wet with oil . Checked compression (was same as when I started this thread, GOOD) Did cylinder leakage test and was Good (around 10% leakage on all cylinders). I have been all over internet I found out that the valve stem seal can cause this but im not 100% sure about this, does any one have any input on this or what can I do to find a posible repair?

thanx everyone

     Thread Starter
 

6/18/2013 5:46 PM  #22


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

I had that problem once when I had a blown head gasket.  I had the valve stem problem on my first 289 when it passed 200,000 - replaced it right away.  You could have either - or both!?!


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

6/18/2013 5:46 PM  #23


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

I had that problem once when I had a blown head gasket.  I had the valve stem problem on my first 289 when it passed 200,000 - replaced it right away.  You could have either - or both!?!


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

6/18/2013 9:48 PM  #24


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

LCsteve thanx for your response, so theres no way to be 100% sure if the HG or the valve stem seals are the issue? 

     Thread Starter
 

6/18/2013 10:57 PM  #25


Re: Rich bank 2 on 96 cobra mod engine

With that much oil in the cylinder, I would surmise that a blown head gasket would be the cause.  You can't get that much oil past one oil seal. 

BTW:  If it is the seal. it is most likely to be the intake valve as there is a vacuum in the intake system and pressure in the exhaust.


Original owner - 351w,T-5, 4whl disks, power R&P
 

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