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8/03/2015 11:57 PM  #1


Cheap 351w stroker question

I've read that you can take a 3.850 crank, stock 351w rods, and 302 pistons, and create a 393 stroker. Or 387ish.... I'm assuming that's too good to be true, and that there's a lot more involved than what I understand. What machine work would have to be done? If any

 

8/04/2015 5:32 AM  #2


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Thats what I have in my 66 coupe, the only custom part is the crank, stock truck 351w truck rods, .030 over 302 pistons, The cranks run about $400. I converted over to roller lifter set-up, and AFR 185 heads, 10.2-1 comp, and a 750 CFM carb. Good for right at 450HP on the engine dyno, and mine has a mild cam and idles nice, I have been running it for nine years. I have a five speed and 3.80 gears, lots of fun. I am running a 8" rear, but with only 245 tires, they break loose way before the rear would ever give up.
 

 

8/04/2015 9:13 AM  #3


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Do you have a link for the crank?

 

8/04/2015 12:25 PM  #4


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Here is what a friend of mine did to build my 393 stroker. Real nice street maners and a blast to drive. http://www.tm66mustang.com/photo_album.2html.html

Last edited by T. McG/393 (8/04/2015 12:27 PM)


Hosted Mustang Steve Birthday Bash 2009        http://www.tm66mustang.com
 

8/04/2015 4:21 PM  #5


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Wonder how much bigger you can make the crank by "off-set grinding" it?
6s6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/04/2015 4:43 PM  #6


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

For the 393 atleast the one I talked to the summit tech line guy years ago is indeed just an aftermarket crank, 302 pistons and you reuse the 351 rods. If you are going to offset grind a crank I believe the 400m cranks can be ground to work in 351w blocks, you end up with around 408 if I remember correctly. Usually its just cheaper and safer to just buy the stroker crank.

 

8/04/2015 8:24 PM  #7


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

So why the 302 pistons with the 393 stroker?

 

8/04/2015 8:53 PM  #8


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Steve69 wrote:

So why the 302 pistons with the 393 stroker?

 
And do you have to bore the block? What other machine work is necessary for this mod?

     Thread Starter
 

8/04/2015 10:23 PM  #9


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

HAVEaSigAR wrote:

Steve69 wrote:

So why the 302 pistons with the 393 stroker?

 
And do you have to bore the block? What other machine work is necessary for this mod?

The 302 pistons have a shorter pin height, which puts the top of the piston near deck height. This is important because of the longer stroke. If you used the 351 pistons they would be sticking out of the cylinder by a bunch. The heads and valves wouldn't like that

Anytime you change pistons in a street car it's pretty darn wise to make sure the cylinders are bored/honed to fit the pistons. Especially if you're going to the expense of stroking it. Money well spent.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/05/2015 5:31 PM  #10


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

HAVEaSigARq wrote:

 And do you have to bore the block? What other machine work is necessary for this mod?

Any time you increase the stroke of a particular combination you want to double check rod big end/ crank throw clearance to block, and rod to cam clearance, also piston to crank counterweight clearance, crank to oil pump and pickup clearance. I like clearance to be between .070 - .100 for the above listed areas. Alot of times most of these areas are not much of an issue, but its a heck of a lot safer to spend the time and check, than to have a pile of $3000 metal hamburger sitting under the hood.

 

8/05/2015 9:14 PM  #11


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Thanks for explaining!

 

8/06/2015 11:49 AM  #12


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

I did that build for a friend a few years ago.  The crankshaft was an Eagle # ESP-103513850, bought from Summit.  There was interference at the bottoms of the cylinder bores with the rod big ends.  Not all, just some.  There was an interference issue at the block casting at the oil pump mounting.  And there was an issue with rod big end bolt heads and one or two cam lobes.  All these issues were easily resolved with a die grinder. I went for 0.060 inch clearance at all locations. 
The combination required addition of "heavy metal" to the crankshaft for a good balance.  For that reason, I would say you should not try to get by without balancing this rotating assy.
I would suggest you use the old bearings, and the new pistons with no rings when you are checking for and correcting the clearance issues.  You will probably have the assembly in and out a few times.
This makes a nice running engine with gobs of torque, with very good street manners. 

 

8/06/2015 1:09 PM  #13


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

I think I'm going to go this route. My 351w is a non-roller, so I'm thinking I should get a roller block and the 3.850 crank and take them to the engine builder and have him get it all squared away. Anyone want to put together a parts list for what all I will need? Also, I have 2 sets of 351w heads. Should I have a set of these reworked? Or just go ahead and buy AFRs?

     Thread Starter
 

8/06/2015 1:20 PM  #14


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

You can price it out, but assembled alum heads are about the same price. That's why I went with AFR.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/06/2015 6:58 PM  #15


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Good call on the balancing Pablo.

 

8/06/2015 7:59 PM  #16


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

AFR 185s or 205s with this set up?

     Thread Starter
 

8/06/2015 9:30 PM  #17


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

EITHER head is going to make so much torque with that engine that traction will become an issue.
IF it were me.....I'd get the 205's.......run a big-a$$ roller cam....and about a 750 cfm Edelbrock carb!!!(maybe even look into a tunnel ram set-up.What I understand, with right parts and good tune they can make nice(relatively speaking) street pieces)
Excess is a great thing when building a "hot-rod".
IF you were going for gas mileage and doscile street manners you would buy an Altima....


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

8/06/2015 10:31 PM  #18


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

I too would get the 205's. Remember you're almost at 400ci and it needs to breathe.

I have the 185's but in hindsight wish I had the at least the 205's. The nice thing about the 205 and bigger is they have 4 bolt holes on each exhaust port. This allows you to use the outers for proper header tube and gasket seal.


Bob. 69 Mach 1, 393W, SMOD Toploader, Armstrong  steering, factory AC.
 

8/07/2015 5:41 AM  #19


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

One thing to consider is that the rod bolt head to cam issue is a nonissue with aftermarket rods using capscrews.  For the cost of rehabing a set of rods you are probably only looking at $150 more for a set of aftermarket rods.  To me that's money well spent. 

I would absolutely balance any rotating assembly, even if was all stock I'd do it.  That's $150 very well spent to make sure there are no issues.  Make sure to give then your balancer and flywheel/flexplate when they do it.  If you  need mallory metal it will add a bit to the cost, especially if you want it internally balanced.  I prefer an internal balance and will spend the extra money for that. 

I'd talk to one of the major cam companies and get a cam custom ground for the engine, again its only about $100 over an out of the book cam and well worth the money.  I would discuss everything with them and buy parts accordingly (heads, intake, etc.).  This will ensure a good combination.  The best engines are balanced combinations.  That's how they make the most power with the best manners; everything must work together. 

 

8/07/2015 8:51 AM  #20


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

I can get the 185s for around $1000 in trades. Should I still go for the 205s?

Another question... Same guy with the 185s has a "351w with a fresh bottom end, and stock bore." If I started with this, would I still have to bore the block or could I just put 302 pistons in it?

Last edited by HAVEaSigAR (8/07/2015 9:19 AM)

     Thread Starter
 

8/07/2015 3:53 PM  #21


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Thanks, MachTJ.  HaveasigAR, I have the parts list for the build I did on an XL spread sheet.  I am not very computer savvy, so don't know how to get that spread sheet to you.  I could attach it to an e-mail if I had your address.  I guess you could PM that to me?
The combination I used, except the heads, was recommendations from FRPP tech guys.  It is a roller block using roller hydraulic lifters. 
I will tell ya this, CHEAP it wasn't.  Parts were $3,300.00 not counting donor block and carb.  Machining/balancing was another thousand $.  If you have a shop build it, that will add more $$.
Enjoy

 

8/07/2015 4:01 PM  #22


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

HAVEaSigAR, you have a PM.

 

8/07/2015 4:17 PM  #23


Re: Cheap 351w stroker question

Pistons should be fitted to the bore, so I would at the very least have the machine shop check the PTW clearance.  We're talking about clearance measured in thousandths of an inch, so a little bit off cna have big consequences. 

 

Board footera


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