FYI FORD - MustangSteve's Ford Mustang Forum
The Internet's Most Knowledgeable Classic Mustang Information
IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT CLASSIC FORD MUSTANGS, YOU HAVE COME TO THE RIGHT PLACE!
MustangSteve has over 30 years of Mustang experience, having owned 30 of them and restored several others. With the help of other Mustangers, this site is dedicated to helping anyone wanting to restore or modify their Mustang.... THERE ARE NO DUMB QUESTIONS!!!!!
Visit MustangSteve's web site to view some of my work and find details for:
FYIFORD Contributors' PICTURES - Power Brake Retrofit Kits for 65-66 Stangs - Classic Mustang FAQ's by MustangSteve - How to wire in a Duraspark Ignition - Mustang Ride Height Pictures and Descriptions - Steel Bushings to fit Granada Spindles to Mustang Tie Rods - Visit my EBAY store MustangSteve Performance - How to Install Granada Disc Brakes MustangSteve's Disc Brake Swap Page - FYIFORD Acronyms for guide to all the acronyms used on this page - FYIFORD Important information and upcoming events

You are not logged in. Would you like to login or register?

3/25/2016 1:18 PM  #1


Damper Question

After getting past the fuel pump eccentric issue with the 289 rebuild I finally had time this morning to get back to assembly. Timing cover\gasket installed, front main seal no issue damper hmmm not so much. The damper will not fully seat. Pulled it and inspected several time then finally pulled timing cover and found that it is contacting the crankshaft timing gear, installed without timing cover. Have to say using this dual roller timing set has been more of a challenge than expected. Attached are pictures, am I being to precise and picky?

First image is of damper installed and gap, Second same from timing pointer view, Third is old damper from another 289 I have in a stand in shop. Fourth image is with timing cover off to verify the damper was against the timing gear.



I guess accessory belt alignment is my biggest concern at this point. 

Last edited by Oreo (3/25/2016 1:34 PM)

 

3/25/2016 1:32 PM  #2


Re: Damper Question

Wow that blue paint sure is purdy shiny, looks like powder coat.
 As for the damper, I can't tell from the first two camera angles on how it is seating but the last shot you seemed to have verified that it is properly against the timing sprocket.


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/25/2016 1:33 PM  #3


Re: Damper Question

Mic a stock gear and the one you have.  Take the damper to a machine shop and have it cut down that amount.  It doesn't appear that sealing will be an issue, and you'll be back to factory belt alignment.  Probably $50 to have it cut down. 

 

3/25/2016 1:36 PM  #4


Re: Damper Question

I made a measurement from the damper face where washer sits to the face of the crank and it shows 0.165 before both surfaces would be flush.

     Thread Starter
 

3/25/2016 1:38 PM  #5


Re: Damper Question

The paint is POR-15 Engine Enamel Ford corporate blue. 
 

     Thread Starter
 

3/25/2016 3:26 PM  #6


Re: Damper Question

Oreo wrote:

I made a measurement from the damper face where washer sits to the face of the crank and it shows 0.165 before both surfaces would be flush.

I don't know that they are though.  I feel like usually the crank snout is recessed a little from the face of the damper.  A proper damper washer is like a flat spring.  You are using it to preload the damper into the gear and the gear into the crank. 

 

3/25/2016 4:34 PM  #7


Re: Damper Question

I don't think I have seen a dampner actually flush with the crank snout. Not just ford engines, I work on everything- ford mopar chevy, industrial and agricultural. I can appreciate your attention to detail, and have a few questions that may help direct you. Can you mic the height of the new dampner compared with the old dampner? I know you have another dampner in the shop but it sounds like its not the one off of this engine. If those mic out exact which I don't think they will because of the seal location on each when both were pulled onto the crank. BUT if they do mic out exact or within a couple thousandths then you would have to mic the timing gear on the crank and compare that thickness to the old single roller. That may reveal the difference. If you are running V belts .165 probably won't matter at all because they are pretty forgiving. If you are running a serpentine belt system you may have to monitor the location and belt tracking closer as the belts are wider and less forgiving in a side to side movement.

 

3/25/2016 8:38 PM  #8


Re: Damper Question

MachTJ I actually have another complete 66 289 on a second engine stand. This is the engine I pulled the second damper off of just to make a comparison. I don't have a set of mic's large enough to measure top to bottom however I did it the old fashion flat bench top side by side with a level for a straight edge across the top of both dampers at the same time. Level had solid contact across both levels. I did find a old single crankshaft gear and is narrower that the current dual chain gear.

In comparing the old engine with old damper and current rebuild with new damper using my calipers via the end depth gauge the old damper on the old engine measures .113 from flush which is a over all difference of .052 between the two.

There are also a couple differences in engines as this has a new Scott Drake timing cover with new style front main seal where as the old one has the original 66 cover where the seal is installed from behind. Also the damper neck is bright and shiny compared to the older one which makes it look worse than it is I guess.

I guess many people wouldn't bark over less than 1/16" difference.

I am going back with v-belts so this may not be an issue in the long run. Pretty sure I can get this one turned down .052 - .060 to get it back in spec.
 

     Thread Starter
 

3/25/2016 10:34 PM  #9


Re: Damper Question

Are you using the correct timing setup for the year of engine and type of fuel pump eccentric? There are big differences in timing sets for one piece and two piece eccentrics.
I'm not sure if the lower sprocket is different but the top one sure is.  Did you check the eccentric clearance in the timing cover?


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/26/2016 7:49 AM  #10


Re: Damper Question

MS I did check this as I had a questions about double and single eccentrics in another thread. Timing set is a Cloyes 9-1135 fits 62-84 221, 255, 260, 289 Std, 302 H/O, 351 Std, 351W H/O (to 03/21/84) with single eccentric, I did check eccentric clearance and that isn't a problem but the oil slinger was going to drag the back of timing cover. At this point the larger width of the gear set seems to the reason for the off set.
 

     Thread Starter
 

5/29/2016 9:30 PM  #11


Re: Damper Question

Just a little update. My concerns about accessory belt alignment were for naught as everything bolted right up and is in alignment.


Ok, this pic is just self serving... Can't wait until I get the other project completed so we can put her back in and fire her up!

 

     Thread Starter
 

5/30/2016 12:18 PM  #12


Re: Damper Question

looks real nice, glad everything is lined up

 

5/30/2016 1:23 PM  #13


Re: Damper Question

TKOPerformance wrote:

Mic a stock gear and the one you have.  Take the damper to a machine shop and have it cut down that amount.  It doesn't appear that sealing will be an issue, and you'll be back to factory belt alignment.  Probably $50 to have it cut down. 

Bad idea to machine the balancer.  If you have to replace the dampner ever, you will have to machine subsequent ones as well.
Solution is to get the correct timing chain for that engine.  I have never had a timing chain that made the balancer not go on properly when the correct chain set is used,  I have installed a lot of double roller chains.  There are a lot out there that do not fit properly, even to the point of some of them dragging the chain across the face of the block.
Cloyes makes a good one.  Summit chains should be avoided due to inconsistent fitment.  The Edelbrock chains always seem to fit.

As you are already aware, the chainset has to be the correct one to fit the fuel pump eccentric.  It is best to have the oil slinger on the crankshaft if using a mechanical fuel pump.  That slinger puts oil directly onto the eccentric.
 


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

Board footera


REMEMBER!!! When posting a question about your Mustang or other Ford on this forum, BE SURE to tell us what it is, what year, engine, etc so we have enough information to go on.