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3/05/2017 9:42 PM  #1


Inconsistent idle

This is a stock '69 F100 2V 302 with 91k original miles.

A little background - this belonged to my uncle who passed 3 years ago. He was having issues with it that he hadn't figured out before he.., and this old Ranger sat in his barn in the Tennessee valley until my father bought it. My pop and I trailered it back to SoCal and brought it back to life. Had a bent distributor body that wouldn't allow the cap to seat properly and the emulsion tubes on the 2100 booster cluster were both cracked.

I am now driving it daily and having a blast- 3 on the tree, manual steering, AM radio and all. Runs strong, doesn't burn oil, really a we'll behaved pickup. Only issue is an occasional 'pop' while at idle. Not as steady as I would expect. It really isn't bad and only seems to bother me but it's there and I'm not one to let it go, I just have to know, if you know what I mean.

Vacuum reads 20 hg @ 650 rpm and when it pops the needle drops to 18 hg. If I rap the throttle it sometimes cleans up and runs smooth for a bit. Seems to get worse as the temp climbs. I added a quart of risoline to the crankcase and put a can of sesfoam through the carb thinking I had a stuck lifter which may have helped a little but barely if at all.

Things I've checked:
Commpression- 155 lowest 168 highest
Valve adjustment:
Non adjustable, non were loose
Shorted the cylinders:
Rpm drop was around 100 across the board

I'm really thinking I either have a sticky valve or some weird ignition issue. I had a different distributor re built and custom curved, but I don't have a working syncrograph to check the guys work.

It's not a huge deal, I'm still driving it all over the county. I just like the challenge and figured some here also enjoy chasing gremlins. I need to re learn how to upload pics, sorry fellas.

 

3/05/2017 10:30 PM  #2


Re: Inconsistent idle

Did you replace the carb or just re-build the 2100?
What is your timing set on?(initial)
I would bump the timing up a few degrees(use a timing light of course and attach a timing tape to the balancer) Also make sure the balancer has not slipped because it is so old. Insure TDC is really TDC. Maybe use a piston stop.
Really not that complicated.........so you will Know-that-you-know!
With the timing up a few degrees re adjust the carb and see what happens.
Let us know if its better/worse/or no change
6sally6


Get busy Liv'in or get busy Die'n....Host of the 2020 Bash at the Beach/The only Bash that got cancelled  )8
 

3/05/2017 11:24 PM  #3


Re: Inconsistent idle

I  replaced the carb. It had a 1.02 from a mustang, I bought a correct 1.08 unit for truck with the correct boosters and no cracks on the emulsion tubes. It was a refurbished unit but I set the wet float height and idle screws myself. Has 48f jets, I didn't pull the power valve though.

The balancer is a brand new Dayco, a better grade than their standard oem  replacement. I checked the marks with a piston stop, I always do that- sometimes new parts are bad. Initial timing was 17°, I backed it down to 15°. I'm running the vacuum advance off the timed port. I set base timing with the vacuum plugged to be double sure.

The timing mark does jump occasionally while watching it with a timing light, but I need to verify if this is a cause or a symptom, like the pop dropping the rpm is flinging the centrifugal advance or something screwy.

Thanks, I know this isn't as sexy as a lumpy cam ;)

     Thread Starter
 

3/06/2017 8:23 AM  #4


Re: Inconsistent idle

What about the throttle shaft bushings/seals?  Expansion while warm could account for why the issue is worse when the engine is warm.  A leak there would cause a vacuum leak that would account for the drop in vacuum and idle speed.  With old carbs this is a common issue.  They can usually be rebushed if the shaft isn't worn out.

 

3/06/2017 11:19 AM  #5


Re: Inconsistent idle

I'll double check but the shaft felt better than most 2100/ 4100's I've fooled with. I sprayed around the shaft and base and didn't see a change in rpm either.

The vacuum is strong at idle, until it hiccups and the needle drops 2 hg momentarily. If it were constant or even rhythmic I think this would be easier to chase.

This is as hard to diagnose as it is to decide if I should put my t-5z in this 3 speed baby doll.

     Thread Starter
 

3/06/2017 1:22 PM  #6


Re: Inconsistent idle

Nope, that's an easy decision in my book.  When the question is more gears the answer is always yes. 

 

3/06/2017 3:53 PM  #7


Re: Inconsistent idle

I would tend to agree with the thought of an intake valve intermittently sticking open.  You would lose vacuum, and when the plug in that cylinder fires, the pop will come back through the open valve, intake, and carb.   Do you hear the pop through the carb?  Is there any valve train noise when the vac drops and it pops?

Last edited by TimC (3/06/2017 3:57 PM)

 

3/06/2017 4:04 PM  #8


Re: Inconsistent idle

Put a vacuum gage on it and use this web sites info to trace down your problems.
 I hope this helps.
 http://www.secondchancegarage.com/public/186.cfm

Or this one.
http://sbftech.com/index.php/topic,3020.0.html

Last edited by Rudi (3/06/2017 4:07 PM)


Good work ain't cheap, Cheap work ain't good!   Simple Man
 

3/06/2017 8:45 PM  #9


Re: Inconsistent idle

TKO- T-5z
I want to bad, it's the sentimentality of cruising my uncle Johnny's ride as he did that holds me back.

Rudi-
I'm with you, it was the vacuum guage that got me thinking a sticky valve was a strong possibility.

TimC-
No valve train noise and just standing under the hood and I didn't put my ear to the airhorn. I'll break out the stethoscope.

I haven't ruled out a rich condition at idle or misfire either, That pop gives a stronger exhaust pulse with your hand near the tailpipe. I had to pick up the 9 year old today so no time to tinker (she hates the truck). I'll get back to you fellas when I get more clues, in the mean time here's the Ranger-



 

     Thread Starter
 

3/06/2017 8:56 PM  #10


Re: Inconsistent idle

I love that truck!

Change the oil to a good synthetic and take it on a highway run of around 100 miles and see if it clears up.  Sounds like a valve issue to me, too (or lifter, but usually a stuck lifter makes noise).
Tried a new PCV valve? 

The WYAIT MONSTER is about 100 miles away from getting a total grasp on you...

And ditch those old dry rotted tires before you "Head out on the highway".

Last edited by MS (3/06/2017 9:04 PM)


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/06/2017 9:41 PM  #11


Re: Inconsistent idle

Good looking truck, Jon.  You might want to consider the fact that when unka Johnny was young and might have considered it,  nobody had probably ever thunk of a T5Z....otherwise, well, you never know.

​2X what MS says....get new rubber.  Ax Red3511 about old tires.

​BB


"you get what you pay for, good work isn't cheap, and there are NO free lunches...PERIOD!"
 

3/06/2017 11:27 PM  #12


Re: Inconsistent idle

I didn't consider running synthetic oil on account of my not knowing about if it mixes or even needs the ZDDP additive I use for the flat tappet cam.

And you two are killing me about them tires! I've been trying to decide about wheels (can't stand the boat trailer rims) before spending on tires in case I wanna go with a bigger diameter. As much as I dig this truck it's tough to find the right look when you're not slamming or lifting it. I might go with 17" steel smoothies and 65 series tires.

And no I haven't replaced the PCV which is cheap enough to do so on the list it goes for the next trip to the parts house.

Last edited by Jon Richard (3/06/2017 11:29 PM)

     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2017 10:17 AM  #13


Re: Inconsistent idle

I don't know about the ZDDP concentration in synthetic oils, I would posit that its the same as conventional though due to the cutback mandated by the EPA.  I will say this though, in terms of wear prevention and engine preservation synthetic is always going to be better than conventional.  I recently had to pull the heads off my WRX which has 193k on it (wife's DD) and I inspected the cylinders while I was there.  I found no appreciable wear at all.  No ridge, no taper, and I could spin the engine over without the heads using only my hand on a socket on the crank bolt (no ratchet or bar).  The cams, followers, etc. likewise showed no wear I could see.  I have maintained it regularly and have used synthetic oil (Amsoil)  since it had about 20k on the clock.  With the heads reworked and a new timing set it runs better than it has in years.  I fully expect another 100-150k from it, which at the rate my wife drives will be another 10-15 years or more.

Oh, and get a DNA test on that 9 year old of yours.  Something's off there...

 

3/07/2017 10:32 AM  #14


Re: Inconsistent idle

I'll do some research on synthetic oil and flat tappet cams, you talked me into it you silver tongued devil 😎.

And no DNA needed, her biological daddy drives a Honda and wears Mr. Rogers style sweaters...

     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2017 11:08 AM  #15


Re: Inconsistent idle

Jon Richard wrote:

I'll do some research on synthetic oil and flat tappet cams, you talked me into it you silver tongued devil 😎.

And no DNA needed, her biological daddy drives a Honda and wears Mr. Rogers style sweaters...

Well then you're doing the Lord's work and I leave you in His grace and favor. 
 

 

3/07/2017 11:51 AM  #16


Re: Inconsistent idle

Jon Richard wrote:

I'll do some research on synthetic oil and flat tappet cams...

Please share what you find.

 

3/07/2017 12:10 PM  #17


Re: Inconsistent idle

TKOPerformance wrote:

Well then you're doing the Lord's work and I leave you in His grace and favor. 
 

Bwahaha!
Trust me I'm trying to get her converted- classic rides, not Bibles 😉

Synthetic oil/ flat tappet cams-
It appears you need ZDDP in both synthetic or conventional oil with non roller cams. There are both on the market specifically blended for older cars. I think I'm going with Valvoline VR1 conventional, not because it's conventional it just rates really high. I read Amsoil Zrod is good stuff too.

     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2017 12:57 PM  #18


Re: Inconsistent idle

Jon Richard wrote:

TKOPerformance wrote:

Well then you're doing the Lord's work and I leave you in His grace and favor. 
 

Bwahaha!
Trust me I'm trying to get her converted- classic rides, not Bibles 😉

Synthetic oil/ flat tappet cams-
It appears you need ZDDP in both synthetic or conventional oil with non roller cams. There are both on the market specifically blended for older cars. I think I'm going with Valvoline VR1 conventional, not because it's conventional it just rates really high. I read Amsoil Zrod is good stuff too.

But think how excited she'll be when you start building that ark...

I've always had good luck with Amsoil products.  Its expensive, but I still operate under the belief that oil is always cheaper than engines.  An oil that doesn't want to wash off with parts washing solvent is challenging to work with during repairs, but I figure it stays on the parts like is says instead of draining off and leaving exposed parts to rust from condensation or be dry when it comes time to start it up. 

 

3/07/2017 1:10 PM  #19


Re: Inconsistent idle

I haven't been able to find Amsoil locally... is it only available online?

 

3/07/2017 1:30 PM  #20


Re: Inconsistent idle

TKOPerformance wrote:

But think how excited she'll be when you start building that ark...

Maybe I can do both-


Not sure where to get Amsoil but wanted to say more about ZDDP.

It seems it's measured in parts per million and was reduced to under 800 PPM with the advent of catalytic converters. What I read suggested a minimum PPM of 1100 and up to 1400 PPM for high lift stiff spring monsters. Also there is too much of a good thing so if you go the route of buying ZDDP additive to roll your own make sure you follow the instructions and mix the correct amount.

I like the idea of getting oil that already contains higher ZDDP so as not to upset the manufacturers blend of other additives and detergents.
 

     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2017 1:40 PM  #21


Re: Inconsistent idle

1)  Jon Richard.... Ohhhh Man, that truck.  My advice:  drive it with those tires, and when they explode & leave you on the side of the road, sign the title, tuck it up above the sun visor, then PM me and tell me where it is.  I'll take it it from there.....

2)  Michael H.... I have attended the last 4 Bashes, and at each one, Don has enlightened me about Amsoil.  I believe he is involved, somehow.  Perhaps he will chime in, or you can PM him.

3)  J R:  Do I see a jen-you-whine AWANA derby car?  I have "assisted" in the creation of those for years.  Maybe I should have used Amsoil on the wheels/axles.  I never could get those thing to go fast.  Knowing my limitations in the speed arena, the kids and I always went for style.

 

3/07/2017 2:52 PM  #22


Re: Inconsistent idle

Dagnabit! You guys jinxed me!
I was driving along And sure enough the P side front tire blew and pitched me into a ditch 😠

I've had it. I did like you said TimC, the title is signed and the keys are on top the rear tire, I'll be at the closest bar, here's the address-
1038 Cup Tree Road Gravois Mills MO 65037 US

     Thread Starter
 

3/07/2017 3:24 PM  #23


Re: Inconsistent idle

I buy Amsoil locally; there's a Chevy dealership here that sells it.  I think that you just need to find a local "dealer", which is often just a guy who sells their products out of his garage, etc.  Here's a link from their site that should be able to help:

http://www.amsoil.com/locator/map.aspx

 

3/07/2017 3:33 PM  #24


Re: Inconsistent idle

On an old 302 with a bunch of miles and stock cam and valve springs, I really don't think there is much to worry about with the oil containing special additives.  Now it it had a brand new cam and lifters, FOR SURE you need the additive.  I was just thinking you want the cleanest, thinnest, easiest flowing oil that you can use to try and get things to free up a bit.
And replacing lifters is not that big a job on a 302 should you need to.  Beware of WYAIT...


Money you enjoy wasting is NOT wasted money... unless your wife finds out.
 

3/07/2017 4:11 PM  #25


Re: Inconsistent idle

Yeah, no telling how gummed up things got sitting dormant in that barn for three years, I might snake a bore scope down a plug hole to see if the sea foam and risoline had any effect.

And you're telling me! I have two other projects sitting on blocks, victims of my mortal enemy WYAIT

     Thread Starter
 

Board footera


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